![Dead Italian soldier holding a photograph of his child, north Africa, WWII, c. 1940's [1080x1087]](/photos/nprd9n.jpg)
Dead Italian soldier holding a photograph of his child, north Africa, WWII, c. 1940's [1080x1087]
Dead Italian soldier holding a photograph of his child, north Africa, WWII, c. 1940's [1080x1087]
评论 (103)
bustedfingers4,621 赞2021/6/1
All war is a symptom of mans failure as a thinking animal.
Ricerat736 赞2021/6/1
Steinbeck certainly knew what he was talking about.
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Shoddy-Lifeguard61 赞2021/6/2
Why’d you respond to that comment with this? Just hijacking the top comment to copy and paste a joke for karma?
141_133726 赞2021/6/2
It's not even that funny.
Dr_Mub599 赞2021/6/1
“All wars are civil wars because all men are brothers.” Francois Fenelon
DrDilatory110 赞2021/6/1
Yeah seriously. Thinking about space and interactions with alien species someday makes all human versus human wars seem ridiculous, petty, and stupid. I hope one day the human race can reach a point where there's a unified global sense of collectiveness and cooperation, where rather than rich countries thinking about their own resources, the globe thinks about where resources are needed most and directs them there. I think deep down humans are far too tribal for anything like that to ever occur though, and it'll probably eventually be our downfall.
The_Impresario43 赞2021/6/2
> I hope one day the human race can reach a point where there's a unified global sense of collectiveness and cooperation I think this is possible, but a *lot*^^*lot* of people are going to have to die first.
ivanacco122 赞2021/6/2
The only way for that to happen is an unification war a la warhammer or an external enemy but if aliens have the logistical capability to make extra planetary invasions we are fucked either way.
medoweed51655 赞2021/6/2
"Oof, these snakes are a mess. 19 Billion snakes divided in to 10 thousand nations, all on the brink of global war over... Ha! Race? How funny is that!! Imagine being a racist snake!!! Hey other snake, I hate you because you're the wrong color *snake!* Haha!"
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HooptyDooDooMeister62 赞2021/6/1
“Here we go again!” —ABBA
mifilsm134 赞2021/6/2
"Wanna fight? Fight me!" ---MAHATMA GANDHI
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endof2020wow167 赞2021/6/1
If you’re a fan of sci fi, this is a major theme in foundation. The most famous quote from those books is “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”
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endof2020wow16 赞2021/6/1
What, when? I’m not going to get into spoilers, but those books are an example of how outsmarting your opponent is the key. I will use the attack on foundation and the priests taking over the ship as my vague example
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[已删除]78 赞2021/6/1
Animals have power struggles and “wars” as well no?
jeppijonny234 赞2021/6/1
Animals definately have those, and that is exactly the point. I think it's supposed to mean, as thinking beings we should have evolved beyond the 'evil enemy bad, me kill' mental state, and use reason and pragmatism to solve our issues, as on average, we as mankind benefit from such an approach.
citrongettinsplooged38 赞2021/6/1
The problem is that, using reason and pragmatism, the logic train often realizes that violence is a reasonable route to a goal. The death tolls from two World Wars did not change that thought process - only the interconnected nature of economies limit the chances of that now. You can bet that there are countries out there that, as soon as the scales of economy tip in favor of violence, will immediately take that route.
Samwise77715 赞2021/6/1
This implies that both sides of a conflict have rational people.
[已删除]53 赞2021/6/1
all theyre saying is we should be better because we have the tools to do so basically, because we, at least consider, ourselves a high functioning species
profnutbutter20 赞2021/6/1
That is the goal, yes
ieGod18 赞2021/6/1
> both sides of a conflict have rational people Both sides typically do. It's the deferral to tribalism that impedes this rationality from taking center stage.
explicitlydiscreet82 赞2021/6/1
The quote implies that when humans go to war we revert to a primitive animalistic state and stop being "thinking animals." The logic being that thinking animals should not need to resort to violence to resolve a problem.
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Ya the quote is talking about this specific thing. Animals have wars cause they aren’t thinking animals.
purple_tr3m0nk3y19 赞2021/6/1
Oh they defos do. You should look up on the “Bishan Otter Turf Wars”. It’s adorably brutal.
ataraxic8937 赞2021/6/1
No, war is a symptom of the simple fact some disagreements have no nonviolent solutions. Not all war is inevitable, but some is.
2,452 赞2021/6/1
"I only need a few thousand dead so that I can sit at the peace conference as a man who has fought." - Benito Mussolini
947 赞2021/6/2
What a fucking moron.
406 赞2021/6/2
Ehh, he just didn’t have the benefit of hindsight on his side, it wasn’t entirely unreasonable to think that Britain would sue for peace once Poland and Western Europe fell
133 赞2021/6/2
No but those Horrible Imperialist British people held out for at least two years thereby enabling the preparation of the fortress Island that enabled the launching of Operation Overlord thereby putting in motion the liberation of Continental Europe...bloody English bastards...
37 赞2021/6/2
“Horrible Imperialist British” I cant tell if your being sarcastic
32 赞2021/6/2
He is, he's trying to defend the British.
22 赞2021/6/3
To be fair colonialism is an extreme evil. I get that they were fighting the nazis who did far worse things in comparison but what the brits did in south Africa to the boers, to India to the.... Indians. In North America to the indigenous. What they did in Kenya is a good one to ruin your day.
58 赞2021/6/2
To stubborn to surrender, how uncivilized
43 赞2021/6/2
The reason Britain survived on their last legs was not *solely* because of their own valor. Had Germany not tried to blitz themselves into Russia and rather focused only on defeating Britain, they would’ve most likely conquered all of Europe. Hitler broke the peace with Russia, effectively bringing about his doom. Just glad that they messed up on that. Not disagreeing with you, btw, just saying why they did survive.
47 赞2021/6/2
The Blitz over Britain worked so well the Germans stretched the RAF too thin at the peak of the conflict. Enabling for a pocket in air control to allow an invasion of Britain. Good thing the German officer in charge of the luftwaffe in France was a sycophant and incompetent. And the German higher ups never even knew their initial plan was working. And instead moved and attacked other areas where the RAF were more concentrated. Allowed the British to recoup and reassess their battle plan to hold the Germans back.
33 赞2021/6/2
A stray allied bomber missed his bombing target and flew over civilian population in Berlin and killed a couple civilians. This enraged Hitler and he ordered the luftwaffe to target civilian population of London, it was a bad plan because they weren't equipment to topple a city that large. Thus not targeting airfields and the RAF specifically they were able to regroup.
23 赞2021/6/2
> Continental Europe West Europe* Soviets did most of the work in defeating the German Army. Operation Overlord was more relevant for preventing the Soviet Union from taking more of Europe post war. Edit: Ah the typical downvote instead of response because you can't dispute the truth of it.
24 赞2021/6/2
Remember also the [Lend-Lease Act's impact in USSR](https://www.rbth.com/defence/2016/03/14/lend-lease-how-american-supplies-aided-the-ussr-in-its-darkest-hour_575559) and there would not have been a two-front war for Germany if the UK fell or negotiated an end while the [Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact](https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact) was still intact. The great efforts of the ordinary citizens of the USSR do deserve more attention in the two fronts in Europe no more or less than those in other Allied forces. Give the credit everywhere it's due.
44 赞2021/6/2
If there’s a silver lining it’s that the fucker got shot and strung up in a town square
1,413 赞2021/6/1
Can you imagine you're this guy? Just caught a bullet in the chest, bleeding out on the ground, and as you know the time has come. You take a picture of your son or daughter out of your jacket to make it seem like for but a moment, you weren't at the pinnacle of hell.
1,164 赞2021/6/2
Having had a near-death moment, myself, where I pulled out and looked at photo... it wasn't to pretend he wasn't in hell... it was to have the last thing he ever saw be the thing he loved the most.
256 赞2021/6/2
F me. This hit me so hard it hurt. When I was a younger guy, I had a “near miss” of my own. I think it would affect me much differently now as a husband and parent.
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25 赞2021/6/2
Was it heartburn like me?
42 赞2021/6/2
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36 赞2021/6/2
Seemed like a lot of guys I knew in Afghanistan had photos like this with them. It’s oddly normal for a horrible situation. I carried a camera on patrols and took a photo of one of my guys looking at his wedding photo.
90 赞2021/6/2
There was a writer who used to be in WWI (Stainbeck? Hemingway?) who described how after the battle the dead were surrounded by papers and other personal items that fell out when looters emptied their pockets. He also pointed out that you can even guess the nationality from the body's position - one side had their large pockets on the back of the trousers and the bodies were laying face down as a result. So yeah, it might not have been anything as romantic as that even if we ignore the possibility of a staged photo. Edit: It's from Hemingway's *A Natural History of the Dead*. >The surprising thing, next to their progressive corpulence, is the amount of paper that is scattered about the dead. Their ultimate position, before there is any question of burial, depends on the location of the pockets in the uniform. In the Austrian army these pockets were in the back of the breeches and the dead, after a short time, all consequently lay on their faces, the two hip pockets pulled out and, scattered around them in the grass, all those papers their pockets had contained. The heat, the flies, the indicative positions of the bodies in the grass, and the amount of paper scattered are the impressions one retains. The smell of a battlefield in hot weather one cannot recall. You can remember that there was such a smell, but nothing ever happens to you to bring it back.
28 赞2021/6/2
[Here's a sad Italian folk song from WWI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVA_7IIoIZk), actually attested as being sung by the troops, about the tragedy of being sent to die a pointless death in a distant land by cowardly elites. Different war, different theatre, similar situation. Couldn't find a version with English subtitles, so here's a shitty translation from me: > **Oh Gorizia, you are cursed** > > On the morning of the 5th of August > they moved, the Italian troops > to Gorizia, the land far away > and sorrowfully everyone left > > Under water that came down in torrents > hailing, the enemies bullets > on these mountains, hills, and large valleys > they died crying out this: > > Oh Gorizia, you are cursed > for every heart that knows a conscience > sorrowful was the departure > and many will not return > > and you cowards that stay there > with your wives on beds of soft wool > scoffing at us cannon fodder > this war taught us to punish > > and you who call this a field of honour > this land beyond the borders > here we die crying "murderers" > a curse be upon you > > Darling wife who cannot hear me > I pray to close comrades > to watch over our children > I die with their names in my heart > > Oh Gorizia, you are cursed > for every heart that knows a conscience > sorrowful was the departure > and many will not return
16 赞2021/6/2
As a father with young kids. This is so heartbreaking... I wish I hadn't seen it
1,369 赞2021/6/1
What a weird comment section. Anyways, this is heartbreaking whether or not staged. So many soldiers who were practically children themselves thrown into a war by the rich, all convinced they were fighting for their home and freedom. Worldwide we lost so many brilliant minds and kind hearts and talents we'll never know. Really sucks
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110 赞2021/6/1
>the late 18th and early 19th century Photography didn't exist until the early 19th century and wasn't prominent until the mid-19th century. World War II was the mid-20th century.
105 赞2021/6/1
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27 赞2021/6/2
It's easy to confuse it. My brain always wants to think the 1900s are the 19th century and 2000s are the 20th, because that's what makes the most logical sense. I always have to remind myself the first year was the start of the first century, not the "zero'th" century, so everything after that is actually bumped up by 1.
25 赞2021/6/1
> American Civil War photography which was about *eighty* years before this picture was taken, to be fair. There's a great scene in The Wire with the newspaper editor absolutely ripping a photographer for always finding poignant imagery of burnt childrens toys in the rubble of homes. IIRC they're like considering whether he has a stash of them in his trunk to bring on site. attitudes about this sort of thing have shifted wildly over the years. There's a great
16 赞2021/6/1
There's indeed a great
24 赞2021/6/1
I ALWAYS think about exactly this. Think of how many young men and women were killed in just the wars since World War 1. How many millions and millions of soldiers and civilians were killed? How much of the WW2 generation was just wiped out? How many Albert Einstien’s or Walt Disney’s, or Steve Jobs, or Marie Curie’s were killed before they ever got a chance to be great? How many incredible scientific breakthroughs were lost or delayed because the person who discovered them was killed in war before they actually had the chance to discover them? What diseases and cancers still exist today because the person who would discover their cure was killed in battle? How many incredible stories, films, music, pictures were never seen, heard, or enjoyed because their artist was killed before they could be made? We lost a huge chunk of my grandparents generation in WW2. And not just in America, but across the globe. And there is no way to accurately guess how much knowledge and art was lost because some brilliant individual was killed. But the answer is definitely not zero. We can say for a fact that we absolutely lost at LEAST a few brilliant individuals who would have gone on to become world renowned in their field. Statistically speaking, at least a handful of them would have gone on to become household names. Famous for some discovery, or piece of art, or for starting some business that doesn’t exist today. Imagine if we had some eccentric billionaire obsessed with Space (like Elon Musk) only that person rose to prominence in the 1970’s instead of the 2000’s. Can you imagine what the world of space travel might look like today if we had someone like Elon Musk pushing rocket technology back in the 1970’s like Elon is doing today? We could potentially have landed men on Mars by now, have a tourist destination on the Moon. And be broadening our sights to the next frontier by now. Perhaps that example is a little more on the unlikely side. But I believe that my overall point is true. Statistically speaking, there had to have been at least a handful of people killed in war that would have gone on to change the world in some way or another. Perhaps not quite as significant as space travel, but even an incredible work of art or an amazing work of fiction can still change the world or the culture of the world. Hell, imagine if Steve Jobs had been killed in some war. IF Apple even gets started without him, it would most certainly
not be the company it is today without him. Which means we almost certainly do not live in a world with iPhones. (No doubt we would still all have smartphones, just from a different brand. But you can’t deny the impact that the Apple brand has had on the world’s culture today).
17 赞2021/6/1
Yea fuck moisilini or however u spell that guys name
38 赞2021/6/1
It's spellt Mussolini
639 赞2021/6/1
I'm willing to bet this was staged. Cool pic, though.
28 赞2021/6/2
Yeah, the photo looks placed, not held (and then relaxed). And with nothing to keep it in place or covered I assume a dirty and windy battlefield would have obscured it.
118 赞2021/6/1
Why would they have staged it tho? Edit- thanks guys I was genuinely curious why it would have been staged and every one was really helpful and gave me a quick history lesson, thank you all :)
361 赞2021/6/1
To have a better picture.
100 赞2021/6/1
it would have blown away most likely, kinda reminds me of the dead mafia boss holding an ace card that was also staged
98 赞2021/6/1
to weaken the morale of the fighters on the side they staged it against? (maybe)
31 赞2021/6/1
You’ll see it when we see China fight a war. Almost every soldier is an only child, so every parent has more of a reason to oppose war.
207 赞2021/6/1
Photo perfectly aligned in his hand and a dramatic death pose. Seems staged to me as well.
79 赞2021/6/1
It does look staged, but if I were wounded or dying, and waiting for the enemy to come and finish me off, I'd probably take out pictures of my children to have their faces as the last thing I see before I cross the dark waters. So, probably staged, but still not impossible that this happened countless times.
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27 赞2021/6/1
Yes, that's what staged means
48 赞2021/6/1
Ever seen Nightcrawler?
68 赞2021/6/1
Many photographs are staged. But sometimes you don’t know. I was a passenger a small work vessel going under in a stormy night. One of our workmates commented “how cowardly some of our workmates were”, my answer to him was, “ only workmates who were fathers were freaking out, they are not afraid of dying, they are afraid of abandoning their kids”. We all survived, one of the family guys , invited us to drink some wine he had to celebrate important life events.
18 赞2021/6/1
It was so common that I'd call it standard practice to stage photos in WW2. The dead man is real, but someone slipped a photo of a child in his hand.
25 赞2021/6/1
Wartime photos are often staged going back even to the Civil War.
18 赞2021/6/1
Because journalist can either be heroes or the lowest form of life on the earth that might sell their mother for a sold photo/newspaper
289 赞2021/6/2
We really gotta change the name of this sub
142 赞2021/6/2
Yeah, naming everything after uh, is fucking weird
66 赞2021/6/2
Yeah, I bet his soul is fucking furious that someone posted this picture in this subreddit.
139 赞2021/6/1
I didnt want to be depressed today... but ok.
115 赞2021/6/1
Even if staged it’s a beautiful and poignant picture. Maybe more so if staged, then it’s art.
71 赞2021/6/1
Everything is fake, nothing is real, everything is too good to be true, believe nothing. - Redditors Honestly, why is it hard to believe that someone would spend their last moments looking at a photo of their kid?
30 赞2021/6/1
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53 赞2021/6/1
Anyone who spreads the false narrative that the Italians were sub-par fighters during WW2 is dead wrong. Leadership may have been spotty, but the individual soldier was strong, resourceful, and determined. Look how the Italians fared under German leadership, far better than on their own. The shortcomings we hear about have more to do with poor equipment and supply, as well as inadequate planning.
15 赞2021/6/1
Under German leadership the Italians were excellent soldiers. Just had very bad leadership under Italian Generals.
51 赞2021/6/1
Does this look staged to anyone else? I know it wasn’t uncommon for some photographers to do that. I don’t know this photographers reputation though. It just somehow looks a little off.
35 赞2021/6/1
It's possible but on the other hand such an incredible amount of people died that you can get all sorts of weird positions if you just look at enough bodies.
33 赞2021/6/1
This needs to be on all the recruiting posters all over the world. Let the elite fight it out amongst themselves and leave the rest of us alone.
29 赞2021/6/1
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25 赞2021/6/1
So he was looking at a photo of his child upside down when he was shot?
58 赞2021/6/1
Idk if it’s staged or not. But people don’t always just die immediately when shot. I also don’t see how it’s upside down.
15 赞2021/6/1
If he was stood up looking at the picture and then shot down to his back it would be upside down with how he’s holding it in his hand. If it isn’t staged however, it’s more likely he was shot, lay there dying and reached for the picture for one last look meaning it was the right way around.
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7 赞2021/6/2
Never will I understand why Italians went in a war against Libya
6 赞2021/6/1
As a new father this hits HARD. I cannot even imagine the internal torment he must have experienced in those last minutes or moments knowing he would never be able to be there for his child, or gaze upon their smiling face with his own eyes again.
5 赞2021/6/2
i know the photographer deliberately put it in that position, but still a good capture.
3 赞2021/6/2
I’m convinced that some weirdo set this up to take a photo of it. Some nightcrawler shit
3 赞2021/6/2
Vergissmeinnicht Three weeks gone and the combatants gone returning over the nightmare ground we found the place again, and found the soldier sprawling in the sun. The frowning barrel of his gun overshadowing. As we came on that day, he hit my tank with one like the entry of a demon. Look. Here in the gunpit spoil the dishonoured picture of his girl who has put: Steffi. Vergissmeinnicht. in a copybook gothic script. We see him almost with content, abased, and seeming to have paid and mocked at by his own equipment that's hard and good when he's decayed. But she would weep to see today how on his skin the swart flies move; the dust upon the paper eye and the burst stomach like a cave. For here the lover and killer are mingled who had one body and one heart. And death who had the soldier singled has done the lover mortal hurt. Keith Douglas
3 赞2021/6/3
Looks kind of grainy, could be manipulated
1 赞2021/6/1
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