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克特奇瓦约,祖鲁国王,曾在伊桑德尔瓦纳战役中击败英军

克特奇瓦约,祖鲁国王,曾在伊桑德尔瓦纳战役中击败英军

祖鲁国王塞奇瓦约,他曾在1878年的伊散德尔瓦纳战役中击败了英军。[900 x 1058]

36,491 赞 · 2021-02-11 · 116 条评论

评论 (116)

Bebeku6661,093 赞2021/2/11
His legs look like they could kill an elephant with a kick. One kick man.
他那腿看着一脚就能踢死头大象。名副其实的一脚超人。
Business-Alarm-7495383 赞2021/2/11
Imma just ignore his walking cane 😂😂
我就当没看见他那根拐杖吧 😂😂
K_oSTheKunt307 赞2021/2/11
Yeahhh, it looks like fat not muscle. I'd know because I've got this guy's body
是啊,看起来那是肥肉不是肌肉。我太懂了,因为我这身材就跟他一模一样。
Ace_Rimsky519 赞2021/2/11
He was 6ft 8 and slaughtered 6 of his own brothers in battle and assumed the throne. There's definately muscle in there
他身高6尺8(约2米03),在战场上手刃了6个亲兄弟并夺得了王位。这哥们儿身上绝对有真家伙(肌肉)。
[已删除]92 赞2021/2/12
Classic reddit, Post: "This is a 6'8" warrior king who was extensively trained in hand to hand combat and won his throne by killing many enemies" Comment: "No visible abs and weak bicep definition, pretty pathetic if you ask me."
典型的红迪(Reddit)操作: 帖子内容:“这是一位身高6尺8的战士国王,受过严苛的近身格斗训练,靠杀敌夺取了王位。” 评论:“腹肌不明显,二头肌线条也不行,依我看真是逊毙了。”
Thor1noak205 赞2021/2/11
Yup just look at his shoulders and biceps, the man is strong as hell under that dough, guaranteed.
没错,你看他的肩膀和二头肌,那身膘下面绝对是钢筋铁骨,妥妥的。
jeffthefox118 赞2021/2/11
Thiccbois: we got the power
Thiccbois:我们这儿有实力。
[已删除]56 赞2021/2/11
We all know at least one thicc boi who is just crazy strong compared to what you expect.
我们每个人身边肯定都有那么个看起来壮实(thicc boi),但力气大到让你大跌眼镜的哥们。
[已删除]27 赞2021/2/12
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[已删除]26 赞2021/2/11
Function over form, fellas
功能第一,颜值第二,兄弟们。
justyourbarber28 赞2021/2/11
He was only the King for a few years so it couldn't have been too long before this either. That said, I'd imagine being King could make him gain a bit of weight since it would have less physical requirements than social.
他当国王也就那么几年,所以这事儿应该离那时候也隔不了多久。话虽如此,我猜当国王确实容易让他发福,毕竟这活儿对体能要求不高,反倒是各种应酬少不了。
Ace_Rimsky40 赞2021/2/11
I believe it was an expectation that the king would put on weight, it was a show of power that he could be waited on all day by his wives and eat the best food
我觉得那时候大家就指望着国王能长点肉,毕竟这是一种权力的象征——证明他整天都有老婆们伺候着,还能顿顿吃山珍海味。
lumberdeaks37 赞2021/2/11
The strongest men in the world are a perfect balance of muscle and fat. Just look at any world's strongest Man competition
世界上最强壮的男人,身体都是肌肉和脂肪的完美平衡。不信去看看“世界大力士比赛”就知道了。
[已删除]128 赞2021/2/11
Guess you never heard of farmer strength.
看来你是没听说过什么叫“农夫力量”(farmer strength)。
prooijtje157 赞2021/2/11
Seriously though, people are influenced too much by Hollywood in thinking you need to look like Thor to actually be considered muscled.
说正经的,大家受好莱坞影响太深了,总觉得非得长得像雷神那样才算是有肌肉。
[已删除]32 赞2021/2/11
Haha don't worry bout the donkeys. Let em graze
哈哈,别管那些蠢货(donkeys)了。随他们去吧。
zkinny17 赞2021/2/11
It's so fucking real. I've seen a skinny ranchboi carry tractor chains (for the wheels) like they were nothing.
这简直太他妈真实了。我亲眼见过那种瘦瘦的农场小子扛着拖拉机链条(车轮用的那种),跟没事人一样。
[已删除]31 赞2021/2/11
Yup. I'm 6ft 250lbs and I can lift my own weight without a massive issue. It's hard but definitely doable, and my 6pack is in the recycling bin, no where near my stomach. Do have dad-bod.
没错。我身高6英尺,体重250磅,举起自己的体重对我来说没什么大问题。虽然有点吃力,但绝对能做到;至于我的腹肌,早就丢进回收桶里了,肚子上根本找不着。 毕竟我有大叔肚。
janejanhan15 赞2021/2/12
I think people overestimate how much muscle they have. Sure most big guys have some more muscle than the average person, but for most people those 50-60 extra pounds are mostly just fat
我觉得大家高估了自己身上的肌肉含量。没错,大多数大块头确实比普通人肌肉多点,但对大多数人来说,那多出来的50到60磅体重里,大部分其实就是脂肪而已。
iwazaruu59 赞2021/2/11
>6ft 250lbs > Do have dad-bod. Keep telling yourself that.
>6英尺,250磅 > 说自己有“老爹身材”。 接着自欺欺人吧你。
Business-Alarm-749528 赞2021/2/11
OMG The claws are out, queens!
天哪,姐妹们,这是要开撕了吗!
[已删除]30 赞2021/2/11
Yeah that’s about 50-60 pounds over a dad bod lmao
是啊,这离“老爹身材”起码还差个50到60磅呢,笑死。
ALoudMouthBaby62 赞2021/2/11
> Yeahhh, it looks like fat not muscle. The way people carry fat varies a whole lot, but Ive got to say those legs are absolutely huge. You rarely see legs like that on people who dont squat some substantial weight. The prevalence of PED's in lifting has really warped people's conception of what a strong body looks like. So yeah, those legs have some chub to them but theres probably a fuck ton of muscle underneath. Those are the legs of someone who squats 600lbs at drug tested powerlifting meets.
> 没错,看起来确实是肥肉而不是肌肉。 每个人长肉的方式差异很大,但我得说,那双腿是真的粗得离谱。在那些不练大重量深蹲的人身上,你很少见到这样的腿。如今健身圈里兴奋剂(PED)泛滥,真的把大众对“强壮体格”的认知给带偏了。 所以吧,那双腿确实带点儿肥,但底下绝对藏着惊人的肌肉量。那是能在药检健力赛里深蹲600磅的人才会有的腿。
N64crusader419 赞2021/2/11
Also got to remember even a king back then would've been doing a lot of walking (they wouldn't of had horses at that time)
另外还得记住,哪怕是那个年代的国王,平时也得走很多路(那时候他们可没马骑)。
StonedWater31 赞2021/2/11
> (they wouldn't of had horses at that time) yes, its well known that the Horse was invented in 1893 by Bryan Horse
> (那时候他们可没马骑) 对,众所周知,马是布莱恩·马(Bryan Horse)在1893年发明的。
N64crusader419 赞2021/2/11
I meant this particular tribe at that time in southern Africa not in general lol
我是指当时南非的那个特定部落,不是泛指所有人,哈哈哈。
DirteDeeds76 赞2021/2/11
That dude is built in a way he would crush people. His fat has a ton of underlying muscle. He's just not all fat he's just BIG.
那哥们儿的体格简直绝了,感觉他能把人碾碎。他那身肉下面全是实打实的肌肉。他不是单纯的胖,他只是“巨”。
KateNoire45 赞2021/2/11
The boar body type. We call people built like that either boar or ox around here. They look a bit too "fat" or heavy and slow but holy hell they're mighty. I hope you get what I mean.
野猪型身材。 在我们这儿,长这样的人我们都叫他“野猪”或者“壮牛”。他们看起来可能有点“胖”或者沉重迟钝,但老天,他们真的力大无穷。希望你懂我的意思。
j-neiman15 赞2021/2/11
这是一根圆头棒(knobkerrie)。
[已删除]1,035 赞2021/2/11
How did he manage to pull this off?
他到底是怎么搞定这事的?
dvb702,941 赞2021/2/11
They managed to beat the British at Isandlwana through weight of numbers. They killed something like 1,500 British troops but at the cost of something like 3,000 casualties on their side. Who knows how many of them actually ended up dying of their wounds. The victory was a great statement on the bravery of the Zulu warrior but ultimately it was a disaster for the Zulu people as it was something the British would not be able to just let go. The whole invasion of Zululand to begin with by the British was unauthorised by the British government and something instigated by Sir Henry Bartle Edward Frere to further his own personal ambitions. He was recalled to London on charges of misconduct related to his unauthorised invasion of Zululand but of course it was too late then to stop the Anglo-Zulu War as the defeat at Isandlwana could not be let go by the British government. The defeat at Isandlwana is basically why the battle of Rorkes drift got so much attention. The British needed to come up with a victory of sorts to offset the disaster of Isandlwana. So a relatively unimportant action at Rorkes drift got the legend treatment. Just as an addition on Sir Henry Bartle Edward Frere his policies in Africa also led to the Boer wars and his polices when in India led to war with Afghanistan. He was a total disaster area that left a trail of destruction in his wake. He died not too long after being recalled to London in disgrace whereupon he was beyond causing the world any further harm. #
他们靠着人数优势在伊散德尔瓦纳战役中打败了英军。他们杀掉了大约1500名英军,但自己也付出了大约3000人伤亡的代价。至于到底有多少人最后因伤重不治而死,谁知道呢。 这场胜利虽充分彰显了祖鲁战士的英勇,但对祖鲁族人来说最终却是一场灾难,因为英国人根本不可能就这么算了。起初,英国对祖鲁兰的整场入侵根本没得到英国政府的授权,完全是亨利·巴特尔·爱德华·弗雷爵士为了实现个人野心而煽动的。他后来因未经授权入侵祖鲁兰的渎职指控被召回伦敦,但当然,那时已经没法阻止英祖战争了,因为英国政府绝不可能对伊散德尔瓦纳的惨败善罢甘休。 罗克渡口之战之所以受到那么高的关注,基本上就是因为伊散德尔瓦纳的惨败。英国人需要一场胜利来冲淡伊散德尔瓦纳带来的灾难感。所以,罗克渡口那场相对不那么重要的战斗就被捧成了传奇。 顺带提一下这位亨利·巴特尔·爱德华·弗雷爵士,他在非洲推行的政策还导致了布尔战争,他在印度时的政策也引发了阿富汗战争。他简直就是个行走的大灾难,所到之处留下一地鸡毛。他在被召回伦敦丢官罢职后不久就死了,这下他终于没法再继续祸害世界了。
pappyvanwinkle1111255 赞2021/2/11
Just a side note. The Zulus were organized into units called impis. They could be identified by the color of their shields with each impi having its own color of cowhide. Their battle formation was like the head of a bull, the head in the middle to engage the enemy and the horns on each side to envelop the enemy. They used their shields not only for protection but also to smash the toes of the person they were fighting who was usually barefoot They had some mixed and motley guns which they used at long range to little affect. They most feared the British bayonets which when affixed to the Martini Henry rifle was essentially a spear that out ranged the short Zulu spears.
顺便提一嘴。祖鲁人被编成了一种叫“impi”的作战单位。他们可以通过盾牌的颜色来辨认,每个 impi 都有自己专属颜色的牛皮盾。他们的战斗阵型像个牛头,中间的“牛头”负责正面接敌,两边的“牛角”负责包抄敌人。 他们用盾牌不仅是为了防御,还会用来猛砸敌人的脚趾,毕竟对手通常都是光着脚的。他们手头也有一些乱七八糟混杂在一起的枪支,但在远距离作战时基本没啥用。他们最怕的还是英军的刺刀,那玩意儿装在马蒂尼-亨利步枪上,本质上就是一把射程比祖鲁短矛更远的长矛。
dvb70101 赞2021/2/11
Thanks for the details. The Zulus organisational skills were certainly very impressive and something the British really under estimated.
感谢分享这些细节。祖鲁人的组织能力确实让人印象深刻,这也是英国人严重低估的一点。
infernal_llamas97 赞2021/2/12
I think what you could say is that they actually managed to charge a musket line. They charged into bullets. And didn't break. The numbers would have helped them do it but *damn*
我觉得你可以说,他们竟然真的成功冲击了燧发枪阵线。 他们顶着枪林弹雨冲了上去。而且阵型还没散。 人多势众确实帮了他们大忙,但真他妈绝了。
[已删除]61 赞2021/2/12
Yeah, and not to dispute or diminish their bravery but they used about 15,000 warriors against 1,800 total British, who were using breechloaders with a *maximum* fire rate of 12 rounds per minute, which I would assume was limited during any battle, but especially one like this... with an effective range of 400 yards. I don’t know how fast they were moving, but I’d expect that they closed pretty quickly. I would expect that most of those 15,000 Zulu warriors never came anywhere close to being shot.
是啊,我这也不是要争论什么或者看轻他们的英勇,但他们可是派了大概15000名战士去对付总共1800名英军。英军当时用的后装枪最高射速也就每分钟12发,我估摸着在战场上肯定打不到这么快,尤其是在这种战斗里……而且有效射程也就400码。我不知道他们推进速度有多快,但我猜他们很快就贴上去了。 我觉得那15000名祖鲁战士里,绝大多数人根本都没靠近到会被射程覆盖的范围。
infernal_llamas27 赞2021/2/12
Yea but the point is *did they know that*? Charging into that kind of fire is scary.
话是这么说,但问题的关键是——他们知道这一点吗?硬顶着那种火力冲锋还是很吓人的好吗。
[已删除]31 赞2021/2/12
The British were used to African armies fighting at a distance as most other tribes favoured the throwing spear, bows and firearms. The Zulu short Iklwa spear was preferably used in close combat. This wasn't something the Brits had encountered before but soon adapted to later on the win the war.
英军以前打交道的非洲军队大多习惯远距离作战,因为其他部族基本上都偏爱投掷矛、弓箭和火器。而祖鲁人那种叫“Iklwa”的短矛主要是用来近身肉搏的。英国佬以前还真没碰见过这套,不过他们后来很快就适应了,最后也赢了那场战争。
dulce_3t_decorum_3st389 赞2021/2/11
Excellent informative answer. [Some literature on the subject.](https://www.anglozuluwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/the_Graphic.pdf) (The battle of Isandlwana is discussed on page 50.)
Slampumpthejam26 赞2021/2/12
Long form video with some good visualizations >Britishmuzzleloaders in South Africa: Part 3a (Isandlwana - Chapter 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oMyX1KRSXY >Britishmuzzleloaders in South Africa: Part 3b (Isandlwana Ch 2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC-E4W8-fuA >Britishmuzzleloaders in South Africa: PART 3C (Isandlwana Chapter 3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQkLlQLuuDw >Britishmuzleloaders in South Africa: Part 3D - (Isandlwana Chapter 4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8HsmcHO4Kc
长视频,里面有几个不错的可视化演示。 >Britishmuzzleloaders在南非:第3a部分(伊散德尔瓦纳 - 第一章) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oMyX1KRSXY >Britishmuzzleloaders在南非:第3b部分(伊散德尔瓦纳 第二章) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC-E4W8-fuA >Britishmuzzleloaders在南非:第3c部分(伊散德尔瓦纳 第三章) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQkLlQLuuDw >Britishmuzzleloaders在南非:第3d部分 - (伊散德尔瓦纳 第四章) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8HsmcHO4Kc
hugh-mungus21182 赞2021/2/11
Rorkes Drift was still a pretty impressive battle though.
不过罗克渡口之战确实还是场挺牛的战役。
[已删除]69 赞2021/2/11
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CasualSB21 赞2021/2/11
Incredible scene, I've watch this probably 50+ times over the years
这场面太神了,这些年来我大概刷了有50多遍吧。
dvb7052 赞2021/2/11
I don't dispute that. It just got a lot of publicity attached to it due to the Isandlwana disaster.
这点我没意见。只是因为伊散德尔瓦纳那场惨败,这事儿才被炒得沸沸扬扬的。
Paladin32744 赞2021/2/11
Zulus attack, fight back to back?
祖鲁人杀过来了,这是要背靠背死磕吗?
AzureBlew30 赞2021/2/11
Show them no mercy and fire at will!
别对他们心慈手软,给我开火,随意开火(fire at will)!
[已删除]24 赞2021/2/11
Which one's Will?
那个叫“威尔(Will)”的是谁啊?
[已删除]196 赞2021/2/11
Although to be fair, just as Isandlwana was a great statement on the bravery of the Zulu warrior, Rorke's drift was *also* a great statement on the bravery of the British soldier, despite the fact that the British government needed to take the focus away from Isandlwana. So I feel it's a bit harsh to simply dismiss it as having received the 'legend treatment'.
不过平心而论,伊散德尔瓦纳战役(Isandlwana)极大地彰显了祖鲁战士的英勇,而罗克渡口战役(Rorke's drift)也同样极大地彰显了英国士兵的英勇,尽管当时英国政府确实需要通过此战来转移公众对伊散德尔瓦纳惨败的关注。所以我认为,仅仅因为这个就把它斥为“被神化了(legend treatment)”,未免有点太苛刻了。
huxley7517 赞2021/2/12
It's a great testament to the British soldiers' bravery but also British hautiness, lack of scouting, and outstripping one's supply lines. Not to mention the British not understanding how much ammunition their soldiers needed with "new" rapid-fire rifles.
这部作品充分见证了英军士兵的英勇,但也暴露了英军的傲慢、侦察工作的缺失,以及补给线拉得太长等问题。更别提英军根本没搞清楚配备了“新式”速射步枪后,士兵到底需要多少弹药。
dvb7051 赞2021/2/11
I don't deny the bravery of the British solider at Rorke's drift. I just don't think we would ever of even heard of Rorke's drift if it were not for the need to come up with something to offset the Isandlwana disaster. I did not intend to dismiss Rorke's drift as if it were nothing just I think we should recognise why it got the publicity that it did.
我并不否认罗克渡口之战中英军士兵的英勇。我只是觉得,如果不是为了找点什么来挽回伊散德尔瓦纳惨败的面子,我们根本就不会听说什么罗克渡口。 我并不是想把罗克渡口说得一文不值,我只是认为我们应该认清它为什么会得到那么大的宣传。
Alluhsnackbar91193 赞2021/2/11
We probably still would have heard of Rorkes Drift tbf
说句公道话,就算没那回事,我们可能还是会听说罗克渡口的。
pheasant-plucker54 赞2021/2/11
There were lots of battles in which small groups of Europeans with modern equipment defeated larger forces of native troops. Most of the have been forgotten.
过去有很多战役,都是装备精良的少数欧洲人击败了人数众多的当地土著军队。其中大多数早已被人遗忘了。
timeforknowledge59 赞2021/2/11
>So a relatively unimportant action at Rorkes drift got the legend treatment. Is it unimportant though / not worthy of legendary status? Surely it represented the skill, technological advantage and incredible military discipline held by the British. Not to mention England loves an underdog story. Waterloo and Trafalgar were more politically important but the odds of those battles were at least even. The story of a small force defeated a much much larger force will always become legendary?
>所以像罗克渡口之战这种其实没啥大不了的行动,反而被神话了。 但这真的没那么重要/不配拥有传奇地位吗? 它展现出的可是英军的战术素养、技术优势以及那股惊人的军事纪律。更别提英国人就爱看那种以弱胜强的逆袭故事。 滑铁卢和特拉法尔加战役在政治上确实更重要,但那些仗好歹胜算还是五五开的。那种“极少数人击溃多得多的敌军”的故事,注定会被传为传奇,难道不是吗?
dvb7038 赞2021/2/11
Rorkes drift is unimportant from the perspective of the war as a whole. It decided nothing. It was certainly a worthy achievement though and it is a great underdog story. It just would have likely been forgotten if it were not for the British government looking for some good news to offset Isandlwana. It's a classic case of propaganda. This does not diminish what actually happened at Rorkes drift though.
从整场战争的角度来看,罗克渡口之战确实没啥分量。它根本改变不了什么。不过,这绝对是一场值得称道的战功,也是一个很棒的以弱胜强的故事。如果不是因为当时英国政府急需找点正面新闻来冲淡伊散德尔瓦纳战役惨败的负面影响,这事儿大概率早就被抛到九霄云外去了。这完全就是教科书级别的宣传案例。但这并不影响罗克渡口之战中发生的那些事迹本身的含金量。
timeforknowledge38 赞2021/2/11
> It just would have likely been forgotten if it were not for the British government looking for some good news to offset Isandlwana. I don't know, look to the battle of Thermopylae; 300 (actually 7000) Vs 70k-300k. Yet it is one of the most famous battles in European ancient history. The charge is the light brigade? Again a pointless action that gained legendary status for the discipline demonstrated. I'm just making the point there is something in human nature that make underdog battles memorable, interesting / legendary. > It's a classic case of propaganda. I don't disagree with this, they would have been told for that purpose but the fact of the matter was one force over came terrible odds to become victorious and that will always be memorable.
> 要不是英国政府当时急需点好消息来冲淡伊散德瓦纳(Isandlwana)惨败带来的影响,这件事大概早就被人们遗忘了。 我倒不这么觉得,看看温泉关战役(Thermopylae)就知道了;300人(实际上是7000人)对抗7万到30万大军。但这却是欧洲古代史上最著名的战役之一。 还有轻骑兵冲锋(Charge of the Light Brigade)呢?那同样是一场毫无意义的行动,却因为展现出的纪律性而成了传奇。 我只是想表达,人性中总有某种东西,让那些以弱胜强的战役变得令人难忘、引人入胜,甚至成为传说。 > 这就是典型的政治宣传案例。 这一点我并不否认,它们被大肆宣扬确实是为了那种目的,但事实是有一支部队克服了极端恶劣的形势取得了胜利,而这一点永远会被人铭记。
dvb7045 赞2021/2/11
You know I have a feeling both of your examples there may also be further examples of propaganda. They both happened in the context of things not going that well for the sides that told the stories. It does not change your point that we do love an underdog story and when such a story becomes well know for whatever reason it tends to last.
你知道吗,我有种预感,你举的这两个例子说不定也是政治宣传的产物。它们发生的背景,恰好都是故事讲述方当时正处于处境极其不利的时期。 不过,这并不影响你的观点——我们确实热爱以弱胜强的故事,而且一旦这类故事由于某种原因变得家喻户晓,它往往就能流传千古。
RustNeverSleeps7721 赞2021/2/11
I watched a movie from the early 1960s called *Zulu* a while ago (if I'm not mistaken, it was Michael Caine's first significant acting role!) and needless to say it took a perspective far more favorable to the British with respect to these events than you'd get these days.
前阵子我看了部60年代初的老电影叫《祖鲁》(Zulu)(如果我没记错的话,这还是迈克尔·凯恩的第一个重要角色!),不用说,它看待这些事件的角度,比我们现在看到的要明显偏袒英方得多。
Haze9565 赞2021/2/11
It was pretty respectful to the Zulus too I thought Like everytime in the movie when a soldier would attempt to say something racist or negative about them they’d be corrected by a superior who’s actually fought them and respected them For example the dude who challenges the British to be able to run 50 miles and fight at the end of it
我觉得这电影对祖鲁人挺尊重的。 就像片子里每次有士兵想说点种族歧视或者贬低他们的话时,那些真正和他们交过手并敬佩他们的长官总会出面纠正。 比如说那个挑战英军,问他们敢不敢跑完50英里后再打一仗的哥们。
Tackbracka20 赞2021/2/11
In the beginning there is also a scene where the priests daughter gets harrased by some Zulu. Other Zulus save her. It is clearly to show the Zulus had honour and were not wild barbarians. Same with the long intro of the movie with the beautifull singing. The Zulus had culture, just like us.
电影开头还有一幕,牧师的女儿被几个祖鲁人骚扰。 是其他祖鲁人救了她。 这显然是为了表现祖鲁人是有荣誉感的,并不是野蛮人。 电影那段优美的吟唱作为长开场也是一个道理。祖鲁人也有自己的文化,和我们一样。
Blunkus40 赞2021/2/11
They also used actually member of the Zulu nation to play themselves and their war chants were authentic (which were later reused in the movie gladiator)
他们还找了真正的祖鲁族人来演他们自己,而且那些战歌也是原汁原味的(后来在电影《角斗士》里又被用了一次)。
[已删除]23 赞2021/2/11
Watched it last night. Can confirm it was respectful to both sides. The zulus are clearly the antagonists of the movie, but they aren’t demonized.
昨晚刚看完。可以确定的是,电影对双方都很尊重。祖鲁人显然是这部电影里的反派,但并没有被妖魔化。
infernal_llamas53 赞2021/2/11
>Once he had established the camp at Isandlwana, Chelmsford sent out two battalions of the Natal Native Contingent to scout ahead. They skirmished with elements of a Zulu force which he believed to be the vanguard of the main enemy army. Such was his confidence in British military training and firepower that he divided his force, taking about 2,800 soldiers which include half of the British infantry contingent together with around 600 auxiliaries, and departed the camp at dawn on 22 January to find the main Zulu force with the intention of bringing them to battle so as to achieve a decisive victory, leaving the remaining 1,300 men of the No. 3 Column to guard the camp. It never occurred to him that the Zulus he saw were diverting him from their main force.[50][51] Chelmsford forgot that the superior military machine is only superior when you actually treat your opponent as a threat and intelligent and don't do something stupid like fail to fortify your camp. As below the Zulus had an army with actual tactics and cohesion not just some locals with whatever weapons they could find the British were going to use as target practice. Of course you can't charge into guns indefinitely but it was a very well planned attack to make the most of the zulu's advantages and sucker the British into not preparing properly.
>切姆斯福德在伊散德尔瓦纳建立营地后,派出了两个营的纳塔尔土著部队去前方侦察。他们与一支祖鲁军队的先头部队发生了小规模冲突,切姆斯福德认为这就是敌军主力部队的先锋。由于对英军的军事训练和火力有着绝对的自信,他分兵了,带着约2800名士兵(包括一半的英国步兵分遣队和约600名辅助部队)在1月22日黎明离开营地,试图寻找祖鲁主力并与之决战以取得决定性胜利,只留下第3纵队的其余1300人守卫营地。他压根没想到,他看到的那些祖鲁人其实是在调虎离山,把他的主力给引开了。[50][51] 切姆斯福德忘了,所谓的“军事机器优越论”只有在你把对手当成有威胁、有头脑的敌人,并且别干出“不加固营地”这种蠢事时才成立。 如上所述,祖鲁人拥有真正的战术和组织力,绝不是英国人以为的那种随手抓点破烂武器、拿来当靶子打的土著。当然,你不能无限期地顶着火枪冲锋,但这确实是一场计划得非常周密的进攻,充分利用了祖鲁人的优势,还把英国人给坑了,让他们没能做好充分准备。
SongOfTheSealMonger22 赞2021/2/11
Having actually climbed Isandlwana on a school history trip.. I really enjoyed the remark of one veteran of that battle.. The hill has 3 tiers... and he is recorded saying (hey 40 year old memory here, cut me some slack on exact numbers) "I took 300 thousand steps climbing that hill and 3 steps coming down!"
实际上学生时代搞历史课外实践时,我爬过伊散德尔瓦纳山……我真的很喜欢那位战役老兵的一句评语……那座山有3层……据记录他说(哥们儿,这可是40年前的记忆了,记不准确别太苛求):“我爬那座山走了30万步,下山却只用了3步!”
yokelwombat16 赞2021/2/11
I highly recommend 'Day of the Dead Moon', if you can find it. It's an extensive, well-researched chronicle of the Zulu wars by a South African historian, including stories from both sides of the conflict.
如果你能找到《Day of the Dead Moon》这本书,我强烈推荐。这是一位南非历史学家撰写的关于祖鲁战争的长篇编年史,资料相当详实,还收录了交战双方的亲历故事。
dulce_3t_decorum_3st106 赞2021/2/11
The Zulus were badass. They had a remarkable organised 'military' that, under Shaka, employed a battle tactic called the Bull's Horn Formation where they attacked around the flanks and surrounded the enemy. They also used short spears called ~~Assagais~~ Iklwa and animal-skin shields that gave them a huge advantage in close combat against slow reloading rifles and longer spears. These guys were well trained, fit, and strategic.
祖鲁人简直强到爆。他们在夏卡(Shaka)的领导下,拥有一支组织性极强的“军队”,战术上采用一种叫“牛角阵”的打法,通过侧翼包抄来围剿敌人。 他们还使用一种叫“Iklwa”的短矛(刺矛)和兽皮盾牌,这让他们在近身肉搏时,对抗那些装填缓慢的步枪和长矛,有着巨大的优势。这些家伙训练有素、体能极佳,而且非常有战略眼光。
An_Anaithnid85 赞2021/2/11
A point to add (and I'm not disparaging the Zulus here, they used every advantage and they did it well in this battle) was the superior numbers of the Zulus, communication and command failure of the British forces who rapidly found themselves surrounded, often cut off from each other and without the ammunition they needed, which resulted in close quarters fighting, which is where the Zulus had the clear advantage.
还有一点要补充(我这绝不是看轻祖鲁人,他们确实利用了所有优势,而且在那场战役中表现得非常出色),那就是祖鲁人在人数上占优,再加上英军方面的指挥和通讯失误,导致他们很快陷入重围,各部往往被切断联系,弹药也供不上。这直接演变成了近距离肉搏,而那正是祖鲁人拥有绝对优势的主战场。
dulce_3t_decorum_3st89 赞2021/2/11
True. One should also not ignore the Zulus own brutality against the Xhosa tribe. They're not so innocent themselves.
确实。 大家也不该忽略祖鲁人自己对科萨部落的残暴行径。他们自己也并非什么省油的灯。
Kindly_Sky34 赞2021/2/11
There is a famous story about a Zulu impi that was on its was on its way to raid a Xhosa tribe. As they approach the area they camped on top of a mountain that overlooking the area that they were going to raid. The impi was made up of young men who where lightly dressed as they had marched a long distance. That night it began to snow, and many of the young soldiers died of exposure. Decimating the army and saving the Xhosa. The mountain is known as Insizwa - Which is the Zulu name for young unmarried men or soldiers.
有个关于祖鲁军队(impi)的著名故事,当时他们正要去突袭一个科萨部落。 当他们接近那片区域时,就在一座俯瞰着突袭目标区的山上安营扎寨。 这支部队由年轻小伙组成,因为长途跋涉,他们穿得都很单薄。 那天夜里开始下雪,许多年轻士兵都冻死了。这支军队伤亡惨重,科萨人也因此逃过一劫。 那座山被称为“Insizwa”——这是祖鲁语中对未婚年轻男子或士兵的称呼。
Supreme____leader54 赞2021/2/11
Yeah the zulus were also colonisers of the area. They wiped out many tribes.
没错,祖鲁人也是这片土地的殖民者。他们灭掉了好多部落。
An_Anaithnid75 赞2021/2/11
Pretty much every culture in history is guilty of extreme brutality and what we'd deem inhumane practices. It's just that during the colonial era, some cultures had more efficient ways of doing it.
历史上几乎每种文化都犯下过极度残忍的罪行,做过我们现在看来惨无人道的事。只不过在殖民时代,有些文化搞这些的手段更“高效”罢了。
SelfRaisingWheat17 赞2021/2/11
The Assegai is a long throwing spear. What you're thinking of is the Iklwa, which is the shorter stabbing spear and is named after the sound it makes when you pull it out of your opponents flesh.
Assegai 是种长投矛。你心里想的那种应该是 Iklwa,那是种短柄刺矛,名字来源就是它从对手血肉里拔出来时发出的那种声音。
mynameisfreddit26 赞2021/2/11
By outnumbering them by more than 10:1
全靠以十比一以上的兵力优势碾压他们。
squatdog_nz768 赞2021/2/11
Played by his grandson Paramount Chief Buthelezi in the film Zulu.
在电影《祖鲁》中,由他的孙子曼戈苏图·布特莱齐酋长(Paramount Chief Buthelezi)饰演。
RavenIsMyName951380 赞2021/2/11
Who shockingly enough is still alive
令人震惊的是,他居然还活着。
AGrandOldMoan104 赞2021/2/12
Woah. How old is he now?
哇。他现在多大岁数了?
RavenIsMyName951157 赞2021/2/12
Only in his early 90's. For years rumours have been doing the rounds that he has passed away only for him to make a public appearance alive and well.
他才九十出头而已。多年来一直有传言说他去世了,结果他总能活蹦乱跳地公开露面打脸。
lola_9229 赞2021/2/13
Yeah it's the Zulu king who is currently I'll and his heir died a couple of months ago. So the Zulu kingdom is kinda fucked
对啊,现在病重的是祖鲁王,而且他的继承人几个月前刚挂了。所以祖鲁王国现在基本算是完了。
itsalive4152 赞2021/2/12
One of my favorite movies of all time
这是我最爱的电影,没有之一。
Cousin-Jack347 赞2021/2/11
He defeated the British and stole their entire supply of hobnobs, eating nothing else for the rest of his life.
他击败了英国人,抢光了他们所有的好伴(Hobnobs)饼干,余生就只吃那个。
gazwel276 赞2021/2/11
In reality, the British went back and defeated his army with cannons and Gatling guns in 45 minutes. He was then exiled to London where this pic was probably taken.
实际上,英国人后来反攻,用了45分钟就靠大炮和加特林机枪干掉了他的军队。之后他被流放到了伦敦,这张照片估计就是在那里拍的。
[已删除]86 赞2021/2/11
He must have been fucking freezing
他当时肯定冻得要死。
Digitalgeezer138 赞2021/2/11
The British response was quite something... They absolutely dismantled the Zulu nation. Proportional response was not really in the British vocabulary at that point in history. Yay colonialism...
英国人的反击真是绝了……他们彻底摧毁了祖鲁族。在那个历史阶段,“对等反击”这词儿根本就不在英国人的字典里。殖民主义万岁呗……
VerdantFuppe103 赞2021/2/11
The British colonized the colonizer.
英国人把那个殖民者给殖民了。
dodadoBoxcarWilly166 赞2021/2/11
People here acting like all Africans were the same people under the same flag. The Zulu conquered and took a lot of land from people native to the region, same as the British. Most South Africans are about as native to the area as the whites are. That's history. The strong prey on the weak. It's not a uniquely European thing.
这里的人在这儿装模作样,搞得好像所有非洲人都是同一个旗帜下的同一种人似的。祖鲁人当年也征服并抢占了该地区原住民的大量土地,跟英国人没两样。大多数南非人在这片土地上的“原住民”身份,其实也就和白人差不多。 这就是历史。强者凌弱。这可不是欧洲人独有的勾当。
TuckyMule29 赞2021/2/11
Yeah Shaka Zulu was a straight bad ass conqueror that nobody really knows about.
没错,夏卡·祖鲁绝对是个狠角色征服者,但真的没几个人了解他。
Ask_Me_If_Im_A_Horse43 赞2021/2/11
Unless you play Civilization
除非你玩《文明》系列游戏。
Uniqueusername11111254 赞2021/2/11
Nooooo this is reddit and everyone knows only Europeans have ever conquered/colonized anyone else!!! Nothing like that *ever* took place in Africa, Asia, or the Americas!!! /s
不——行——啊,这可是 Reddit,所有人都“知道”只有欧洲人才征服/殖民过别人!!!非洲、亚洲或者美洲压根就没发生过那种事!!!/s
Stellen99921 赞2021/2/11
I have no idea why this made me crack up so bad.
我也不知道为啥这玩意儿能把我笑成这样。
the_barroom_hero338 赞2021/2/11
You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like
你可能看不上,但这确实就是巅峰水准。
footlikeriverrock59 赞2021/2/11
And they say I "let myself go"
居然还有人说我“自暴自弃”了。
whiskey_reddit244 赞2021/2/11
Looks like an old college football linebacker coach
看上去像个大学橄榄球的线卫教练。
[已删除]26 赞2021/2/11
Or a High School Rugby Coach..
或者是个高中橄榄球教练……
FizVic109 赞2021/2/11
Incredibly, out of the current 177 comments, I haven't found a single T H I C C so here ya go. Interesting discussions nevertheless!
离谱的是,在目前这177条评论里,我居然一条关于 T H I C C(身材火辣) 的评论都没看到,所以给你们补上。 不过讨论的内容确实挺有意思的!
N00bsir301102 赞2021/2/11
More like a Pyrrhic victory. This destroyed any future possibilities for negotiations and the British would return with four times the fire power. That being said the Zulus gave the British 52 officer casualties that day.
这更像是一场惨胜。此举断送了未来一切谈判的可能,而且英国人之后会带着四倍的火力卷土重来。话虽如此,祖鲁人在那天还是让英军折损了52名军官。
timeforknowledge98 赞2021/2/11
The militaristic Zulu kingdom caused the deaths (genocide) of 1 to 2 million Africans, these are not a people that should be celebrated...
好战的祖鲁王国造成了100万到200万非洲人的死亡(种族灭绝),这些人根本不值得歌颂……
PhantomRoyce82 赞2021/2/11
You could say this about literally every nation
你这话用到世界上任何一个国家身上都成立。
timeforknowledge63 赞2021/2/11
Lol exactly that's what I would love people to realise. Just because you are X race or X country does not make your people any more righteous than anyone else. Everyone from every part of the world is sadly all as evil as each other. Saying British should pay for colonialism or still have shame for it means we also need to argue descendents of the Zulu Kingdom pay for the genocide, and then Russia, Japan, China, it's never ending and stupid. People need to stop treating it as a touchy subject, it happened its history accept it, learn from it and move on but you can't be offended by it.
哈哈,没错,这正是我希望人们能意识到的。 仅仅因为你是某种族或某国人,并不代表你们民族就比其他人更高尚。遗憾的是,全世界各地的人本质上都一样坏。 说什么英国人该为殖民主义赔偿,或者至今仍应为此感到羞耻,那照这么说,我们是不是也得要求祖鲁王国的后代为种族灭绝赔偿?还有俄罗斯、日本、中国……这简直没完没了,愚蠢透顶。 人们得停止把这当成什么禁忌话题了,事情发生了就是历史,接受它、从中吸取教训然后向前看吧,别动不动就因为这点事玻璃心。
Gustomaximus19 赞2021/2/11
I brought this up with someone shitting on Britain for slavery the other day. Tell me a nation of significance that wasn't involved with slavery? And Britain was shit for having slavery. As was anyone that has slaves. And Im not looking to whitewash this. But this view pushed increasingly over that last decade that a handful of todays successful nations are the epicentre of the worlds plight is simply ignorant of history and human nature the world over. And is isn't not helpful in moving forward in terms of we need to all get along, not build on old division + I suspect if people grow up being told their societies problems are them because of someone else and not their fault, they reduce their locus of control into facing and overcoming real issues.
前几天我和一个在那儿喷英国搞奴隶制的人聊过这事。你给我找出一个大国是没参与过奴隶制的? 英国搞奴隶制确实烂透了,任何蓄奴的人都一样。我不是要洗白这段历史。但过去十年里,这种观点甚嚣尘上——认为当今那几个成功的国家就是世界苦难的中心——这纯粹是对世界历史和人性无知。而且这对我们向前看毫无帮助,我们现在的目标是和睦相处,而不是制造新的隔阂。另外,我怀疑如果人们从小就被灌输“你社会的问题都是因为别人而不是你的错”,他们就会丧失那种去面对并克服现实问题的控制感。
jayjake986 赞2021/2/11
This isn’t true actually, he himself did not lead any armies at the Battle of Isandlwanda
其实这不对,他在伊散德尔瓦纳战役中并没有亲自指挥任何军队。
4anon2anon066 赞2021/2/11
My man ate well, only a king looked like that
这哥们儿吃得真好,也就只有国王才长那副尊容。
Sean95122 赞2021/2/12
Yes, that's how you showed off your wealth and power. It's why Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof sings about his wife having a proper double chin.
没错,这才是显摆权势的正确姿势。难怪《屋顶上的小提琴手》里的特维会唱着他老婆那标志性的双下巴呢。
[已删除]55 赞2021/2/11
He ate all of their supplies. Not just food, all of the supplies.
他把他们的补给全吃光了。不是说光吃完了食物,是把所有补给都给造了。
harrypodcast733 赞2021/2/11
And was absolutely steamrollered by the British at Ulundi less than six months later. That battle, resulting in the total defeat of the Zulu kingdom, lasted approximately one hour.
不到六个月后,就在乌伦迪战役中被英军完全碾压了。那场导致祖鲁王国彻底战败的战斗,持续时间大约只有一个小时。
NinjaBob17 赞2021/2/11
When its spears vs Gatling guns battle strategy will only get you so far. Considering the technological imbalance and the fact that the terrain limited chances at guerilla tactics its impressive they Zulu had even one successful battle.
当你的战略是拿着长矛去硬刚加特林机枪时,注定走不了多远。考虑到双方技术的巨大代差,再加上地形限制了游击战术的发挥,祖鲁人居然能赢下一场战斗,这本身就已经很牛逼了。
THORLUNN26 赞2021/2/11
Twomad???
hoponpot17 赞2021/2/11
There's a great song about the battle Johnny Clegg & Juluka - Impi https://youtu.be/3vhWhX3ZkW8
有一首关于这场战斗的超棒歌曲: Johnny Clegg & Juluka - Impi https://youtu.be/3vhWhX3ZkW8
ScrmWrtr4215 赞2021/2/11
Wow, the actor they got to play him in Zulu looked spot on.
哇,他们找来演他那个演员在《祖鲁战争》里看起来简直一模一样。
[已删除]35 赞2021/2/12
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negative_ev13 赞2021/2/11
Dude is thick, thick. Based on the chair this dudes thighs are enormous.
这哥们儿那是相当壮,壮得离谱。看看那把椅子,这哥们儿的大腿简直巨型。
[已删除]11 赞2021/2/12
Ah yes, finally, a role model with my body type.
啊哈,终于来了,终于有个跟我身材一样的榜样了。
CilanEAmber11 赞2021/2/11
I've met some of this guy's descendants (or they claimed to be). A few members of the current Zulu Tribe travelled all the way to Bradford as part of a cultural exchange. My Dad went there. The best part was taking these people all the way to York to the National Railway Museum. Overall it was quite a fun time. My dad says he had fun meeting them too, but it was more fun not having him around.
我见过这哥们儿的一些后代(或者他们自称是)。祖鲁部落现在的几位成员曾不远万里来到布拉德福德参加文化交流。我老爸当时也去了。最绝的是带这帮人一路跑去约克的国家铁路博物馆。总的来说那段时光挺乐呵的。我爸说他也挺享受跟他们见面的,但如果当时没带上他,那肯定会更有趣。
iAmDrakesEyebrows9 赞2021/2/11
Me when I forgot to lock the bathroom door.
我忘了锁厕所门时的表情。
[已删除]4 赞2021/2/12
That dude is thick.... in a really terrifying way
这家伙块头真大……大到让人看着都觉得瘆人。
penguincliffhanger3 赞2021/2/12
I’m telling my girlfriend I have the body of a king
我这就去跟我女朋友说,我这身材简直是帝王级的。
Kost_Gefernon3 赞2021/2/12
And he’s sitting on the same chair that is found in all dining rooms of our childhoods.
而且他坐的那把椅子,咱们小时候家里的餐厅里肯定都见过同款。
notyogrannysgrandkid3 赞2021/2/24
Decent titties. Finally, some actual history porn.
奶子不错。终于看到点儿正儿八经的历史福利了。
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