士兵站在他的M60机枪旁，机枪架在装甲车的炮塔上
一名士兵守在他的M60机枪旁，机枪被架设在美国国会大厦的台阶上，旨在马丁·路德·金遇刺引发的华盛顿特区骚乱期间，阻止暴徒进入大楼。（1968年4月）[800 x 1157]
评论 (105)
[已删除]2,551 赞2021/1/8
It's almost as if they were ordered to protect the capitol maybe? IDK. Kind of a risky assumption.
搞不好他们就是奉命来保护国会大厦的呢？谁知道呢。这推测也有点太冒险了吧。
[已删除]703 赞2021/1/8
I think he just wanted to show off his cool machinegun
我觉得他纯粹就是想秀一下他那把酷毙了的机枪。
adanishplz348 赞2021/1/8
He's actually there on his own time, flaunting his sweet gun.
他其实是私人时间跑那儿去的，纯属在那儿炫耀他那杆帅枪。
aiden22304102 赞2021/1/8
Can’t blame him. The M60 is the Chaddest machine gun out there.
这真怪不得他。M60 绝对是市面上最硬核的机枪了。
fish_slap_republic57 赞2021/1/9
In the Vietnam war the special forces loved them, though the front line units did not. This is was because they were pretty high maintenance. The spec ops guys missions were short and it was routine for them to clean and fix all their equipment between missions. The front line units often had no such luxury so the M60 would start to fail in the field.
在越战期间，特种部队对它爱不释手，但前线作战单位却不怎么待见。原因在于这玩意儿实在太难伺候了。特种部队的任务周期短，任务间隙有充足的时间保养和维修装备，这已成常态。而前线部队通常没这条件，所以 M60 在实战中老是掉链子。
CaptHymanShocked34 赞2021/1/9
You ever read about the Battle of Ia Drang? It was Hal Moore's unit, Nov. 1965 I think (been a while since I read his book). One of the M60 gunners was still at his post after the battle and they counted several hundred dead around him. I'll look it up and update
你读过关于德浪河谷战役（Battle of Ia Drang）的记载吗？好像是 1965 年 11 月哈尔·摩尔（Hal Moore）的那支部队（我已经好一阵子没翻他的书了）。其中一名 M60 机枪手在战斗结束后依然坚守岗位，人们发现他周围堆了几百具敌军尸体。我再去查证一下，回头补上。
lizard_chested33 赞2021/1/9
It's like having 2 dicks, but one can kill people.
这感觉就像长了两根鸡巴，但其中一根能杀人。
outlawa30 赞2021/1/9
One kills people, the other can make people. It's the perfect balance...
一根能杀人，另一根能造人。这平衡感简直绝了……
formulaone8846 赞2021/1/9
Someone I know who is in a position to know told me that during Vietnam there were machine gun nests within the pentagon in case protesters breached.
我认识个消息灵通的人告诉我，越战期间五角大楼里设有机枪阵地，就是为了防着抗议者万一冲进来。
its_a_me_garri_oh22 赞2021/1/9
I wonder if they are still there? Better get a mob of my white friends together, stroll on over and find out.
不知道他们还在不在那儿？
最好叫上一帮白人哥们儿，大摇大摆地过去一探究竟。
1,267 赞2021/1/8
Whenever I see pictures from the 60s-70s civil rights protests I’m shocked. They literally were rolling entire regiments down the streets of DC. If the gov tried that today...
每当我看到六七十年代民权运动的照片时，我都感到震惊。他们当时真的是把一整个团的兵力拉到华盛顿街头。要是政府今天敢这么干……
473 赞2021/1/9
Things changed after Kent State
肯特州立大学枪击事件之后，一切都变了。
156 赞2021/1/9
Sure takes a bad image on the army for that one
这事儿确实让军队的形象大打折扣。
363 赞2021/1/9
It is shocking, no denying it. It is also shocking that there were *thousands* of domestic bombings from 1970 to 1972. And yet the upheaval we're going through right now still seems worse. I think back then most people believed the Government would prevail and do the right thing and end the war and things could go back to normal. Now, not so much.
这确实令人震惊，没法洗。
同样令人震惊的是，在1970年到1972年间，美国竟然发生了*数千起*国内爆炸事件。
但即便如此，我们现在所经历的动荡看起来还是更糟。我想那时候大多数人都相信政府终将获胜，做出正确的决定，结束战争，一切也都会恢复正常。而现在，大家没那么乐观了。
267 赞2021/1/9
> And yet the upheaval we're going through right now still seems worse. Probably because you're looking at the 1970s as past historical events and you know everything that happened *after* those events. Since you cannot predict the future, you don't know what will actually happen in the 2020s so you can't be comforted by the fact that you know that "it didn't result in anything drastic".
> 但即便如此，我们现在所经历的动荡看起来还是更糟。
这大概是因为你是站在“事后诸葛亮”的角度去看70年代，你知道在那之后发生的一切。由于你无法预知未来，你不知道2020年代到底会发生什么，所以你没法像回顾过去那样，用“反正最后也没出什么大事”这种已知结果来安抚自己。
212 赞2021/1/9
It seems worse, but it isn’t worse. That impression is a result the amplifying effect of personal cameras in phones, social media, increasingly polarised mainstream media and a scattershot political discourse. Things are bad, but they scarcely come close to some of the roughest decades in the 20th century.
感觉上好像更糟了，但实际上并没有。这种感觉是源于个人手机摄像头放大了效果，加上社交媒体、越来越党派化的主流媒体以及杂乱无章的政治讨论。
情况是糟糕的，但比起 20 世纪最艰难的那些年头，差得远了。
16 赞2021/1/9
I don't think anyone expected a sitting president to orchestrate a riot on capital hill. And what if the president did march with them? You think they're going to fire a fucking m2 into a crowd that includes the Commander in Chief?
我不觉得有人会想到一位在任总统会策划一场国会骚乱。
而且万一总统真的跟他们一起游行了呢？你觉得他们会对着包括总司令在内的人群开他妈的 M2 步枪吗？
16 赞2021/1/9
They would have if the people protesting had been black.
如果当时抗议的人是黑人的话，他们肯定就这么做了。
1,146 赞2021/1/8
As we consider images like these, remember: never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Yes, it is _possible_ that the Cap Hill Police were "in on it" and deliberately under-staffed, under-prepared, and then allowed the rioters access to the building. But it's also just as possible, and frankly more likely, that they fell victim to some bad assumptions: namely that a bunch of Blue Lives Matter folks wouldn't *dare* try to cross a police barrier. So they only prepared for a peaceful protest despite warnings to the contrary. Now, that's not seditious, but it is dumb as hell. And once their positions were over-run, they basically had two choices right? Deploy lethal force in small pockets, get over-run, and turn the entire thing into a bloody insurrection or fall back and try to make nice with Y'all Queda in the hopes that they'd go away quietly. That doesn't excuse their failure and foolishness and it's totally appropirate that the chief of the Cap Hill Police as well as the Senate and House Sgt at Arms have been asked to resign. But it's important that we not jump at shadows right now. It's way more likely that these people just screwed up than it is that they were part of a seditious conspiracy to hold Congress hostage or something.
看看这些照片的时候，记住这一点：永远不要把能用愚蠢解释的事，归咎于恶意。
没错，国会山警察“串通一气”、故意削减人手、准备不足，然后放暴徒进大楼，这种事儿是_有可能_发生的。
但同样可能，而且老实说可能性更大的是，他们只是因为几个糟糕的假设而栽了跟头：那就是他们觉得，那一帮“警察命也是命”（Blue Lives Matter）的支持者绝不敢试图冲破警察的防线。
所以，尽管有警告提醒，他们还是只按和平抗议做了准备。这确实不是什么煽动叛乱，但这种操作简直蠢透了。
当他们的阵地失守后，他们基本上就只有两个选择，对吧？要么在小范围内使用致命武力，结果被淹没，把整件事变成一场血腥暴乱；要么就撤退，尝试跟这群“南方基地组织”（Y'all Queda）套近乎，指望他们能自己乖乖走人。
这并不能为他们的失职和愚蠢开脱，国会山警察局长以及参众两院的警卫官被要求辞职，这完全是咎由自取。但重要的是，我们现在别在那儿疑神疑鬼、草木皆兵。
比起什么阴谋策划要劫持国会之类的，这些人纯粹就是把事儿搞砸了的可能性要大得多。
338 赞2021/1/8
Anyone monitoring Parler and other right wing social networks - including the folks at - has seen the rhetoric over the past week that "cops are now on the enemy's side". If state intelligence genuinely didn't see this coming, they're not doing their jobs right.
任何在监控 Parler 和其他右翼社交网络的人——包括 社区的伙计们——过去一周都看到了那种言论，说什么“警察现在站到敌人那边去了”。如果国家情报部门真的没预见到这一点，那他们这工作干得也太烂了。
119 赞2021/1/8
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157 赞2021/1/8
But after 9/11, the government gave all intelligence agencies WAY more power to basicly do whatever they want. It's almost as if all those invasions of everyone's privacy doesn't actually accomplish anything...
可在 9/11 之后，政府给了所有情报机构超级大的权力，让他们基本可以为所欲为。现在看来，搞了半天，那些对所有人的隐私侵犯根本一点儿用都没有……
80 赞2021/1/8
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28 赞2021/1/8
There's also a huge difference between the open planning of a riot on social media and the covert operations of Al Qaeda.
在社交媒体上公开策划暴乱和基地组织那种隐秘行动之间，有着巨大的差别。
62 赞2021/1/8
In the absence of evidence. There is now a lot of reports showing the USCP was deliberately held back. DC Police was not requested to help and the DC National Guard was ordered to not enter by the DoD and the President himself which is why they came from VA National Guard.
在缺乏证据的情况下。
现在有很多报道指出，美国国会警察（USCP）是被人故意按兵不动的。华盛顿特区警方没有收到协助请求，而华盛顿特区国民警卫队则被国防部和总统本人下令不得入场，这就是为什么最后是从弗吉尼亚州调来了国民警卫队。
364 赞2021/1/8
I was with that train of thought - until i saw a video of after people broke through barriers, and a cop runs back towards the crowd (not towards the building) and waves them in, encouraging more and more people to storm the video. EDIT regarding above paragraph: >That video is edited and purposely does not show the context. That cop is waving to other cops to follow him. It is fake. It is misinformation, its no different than the videos that show "proof" of voter fraud.
>
>[Here is a link to further context, including an unedited version.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/ksolcp/Capital_Police_waving_people_in_past_the_gates_%3F/gih954i/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) >
>This is how misinformation spreads. Note the original post in my link had over 100k+ upvotes, all people who now believe something wildly wrong. Or the fact that the woman who got shot, had multiple armed police standing right behind her. Instead of trying to protect the door, they are seen on video just walking away down the stairs, leaving the other cops on their own, until she tried to climb through the window and a shot was fired, the suddenly theyre acting (and pointing their gun at capitol police at first?) This is more than the cops being unprepared or overwhelmed. Many of the cops acted maliciously and were complicit. Edit: https://v.redd.it/3sw6crwmh5a61 more complicit cops standing by casually as mob walks past them. Pretty sure one of the dudes walking by in this video looks like the dude caught in pictures with ziptie handcuffs? Yeah let him right in, he has no violent motives... More edit: Everyone saying the cops heading down the stairs were protecting some exit or something... https://v.redd.it/lamt2s8cu5a61 Looks like they were protecting the door and just gave up - ya know how i said the cops on the stairs looked like they were giving up as they started to walk down?
我之前也是这么想的——直到我看到一段视频：在人们冲破路障后，一个警察跑回人群方向（而不是朝向大楼），一边挥手把人往里放，一边怂恿更多人冲进去。
针对上述段落的编辑补充：
> 那段视频是被剪辑过的，故意隐去了语境。那个警察是在挥手示意其他警察跟着他走。那是假视频。这就是虚假信息，跟那些所谓“选举舞弊证据”的视频没什么两样。
>
> [这是关于更多背景信息的链接，包括未剪辑版本。](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/ksolcp/Capital_Police_waving_people_in_past_the_gates_%3F/gih954i/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
>
> 虚假信息就是这样传播的。注意一下我发的链接里的原帖，有超过10万个点赞，所有这些人现在都相信了一些大错特错的东西。
再看看这个事实：那个被枪击的女人身后站着好几个全副武装的警察。他们不仅没去守住那扇门，视频里还显示他们转身就顺着楼梯走开了，把其他警察丢在那儿不管。直到她试图翻窗进去，枪声才响，然后他们才突然开始行动（而且起初甚至还把枪口对准了国会警察？）
这可不只是警察没准备好或者是被压制了那么简单。很多警察的行为充满了恶意，根本就是同伙。
补充：
https://v.redd.it/3sw6crwmh5a61 还有更多“同伙”警察若无其事地站在那儿，看着暴徒从他们身边走过。我很确定视频里走过去的其中一个哥们儿，看起来就像那个被拍到带着扎带手铐的人？没错，放他进去吧，反正他一点暴力动机都没有……
再补充：
还有人说什么那些下楼的警察是在保护什么出口之类的……
https://v.redd.it/lamt2s8cu5a61
看起来他们明明就是在守门，然后直接放弃了——正如我之前说的，楼梯上的警察在开始往下走的时候，看起来就像是放弃了抵抗，对吧？
160 赞2021/1/8
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96 赞2021/1/8
It took me a while before i realized they were actually cops... theyre just standing there casually... Atleast one has an ar15... how did the crowd push past them to that door without any shots being fired?
我反应了半天才意识到他们居然是警察……他们就那么随随便便地站在那儿……
至少有一个人拿着把AR-15……人群是怎么在没挨枪子儿的情况下挤过他们冲到那道门前的？
169 赞2021/1/8
The cops don't want to shoot anyone, particularly not close up and when surrounded by lots of other people. Really, once you take account of the fact that they were criminally underprepared, everything else slots into place. The cops couldn't open fire on massive crowds because they risked not only murdering loads of people but also people firing back (given that many in the crowd were armed). They couldn't block the rioters because there were just too many of them, and they didn't have necessary equipment (LTL weapons, batons, shields and helmets). They also didn't have the numbers to arrest people, not anywhere to hold arrested people even if they did manage to get them in cuffs. By the time you see the video of the shooting, the ~~secret service~~ police had successfully done the only thing they really could do in the situation: keep the politicians safe and set up a barricade in front of the door to stop people from coming in. This sets up a "line in the sand", where nuisance actions on one side of the line are ignored by law enforcement (since there's no practical way to keep everyone under control) but stepping over the line gets you a warning shot into the neck (since you're presenting a direct threat to politicians in a way which the secret service do not find acceptable). And it worked, too. The ~~secret service~~ police defended the politicians successfully; the crowd in the stairwell where the woman was shot got very concerned with their personal safety and dispersed (up until that point they had the herd mentality which allowed them to act as a crowd); and the police on the far side of the barricade were not involved with the shooting, so were not turned into targets by the crowd. Really, it was a surprising demonstration of good judgement to avoid bloodshed by the security forces as a collective. It's certainly shameful that traitors were allowed into the building to parade around, but importantly: 1. The security of politicians and hence the democratic process was not compromised at any point 2. No cops had to open fire on crowds (which history tells us tends not to be a good thing). Now if only police could start using that same judgement and restraint when dealing with an autistic man playing with a toy truck. Edit: changed secret service to police.
警察不想开枪打任何人，尤其是在近距离而且被一大堆人围住的情况下。
讲真，只要你考虑到他们严重准备不足这个事实，剩下的所有事儿就都说得通了。警察没法对庞大的人群开火，因为他们冒的险不仅是误杀一大群平民，还有可能遭到回击（考虑到人群里很多人都带着家伙）。他们也没法阻拦暴徒，因为人实在是太多了，而且他们也没有必要的装备（非致命性武器、警棍、防暴盾牌和头盔）。他们也没足够的人手去抓人，就算真给人拷上了，也没地方关啊。
等到你看到那段枪击视频时，~~特勤局~~警察已经成功做到了那种情况下他们唯一能做的事：保护政客安全，并在门口架起一道防线挡住人群。这划出了一条“底线”，在这条线的一边，警察对那些骚乱行为选择无视（因为根本没法把所有人控制住），但要是敢越过这条线，换来的就是射向脖子的一记警告枪（因为你的行为构成了对政客的直接威胁，这是特勤局绝对不能容忍的）。
这招还真管用。~~特勤局~~警察成功保护了政客；在那个女人被击中的楼梯间里，人群开始顾及自己的小命，很快就散了（在那之前他们纯粹是有种从众心理，才敢像暴民一样行动）；而且防线另一侧的警察没有卷入枪击，所以没被人群当成活靶子。
说实话，安保力量作为一个整体，能通过这种方式避免流血冲突，这表现出的判断力确实挺让人意外的。让叛国者闯进大楼里招摇过市确实丢人，但重点在于：
1. 政客的安全以及民主进程在任何时候都没有受到损害。
2. 警察没被逼到必须对人群开火（历史经验告诉我们，那通常不是啥好事）。
要是警察在处理一个玩玩具车的自闭症患者时也能用上这种判断力和克制力，那就好了。
编辑：把特勤局改成了警察。
31 赞2021/1/9
It was actually a cop who fired the killing shot though, not secret service. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/08/jonathan-brostoff/capitol-police-not-secret-service-shot-and-killed-/
79 赞2021/1/8
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15 赞2021/1/8
True, bad wording on my part. However, it wasn't permanently disrupted, i.e. the building did not have to be evacuated and no politicians were killed, injured or prevented from voting that same night.
确实，是我措辞不当。但那并非永久性的中断，也就是说，大楼没被要求疏散，当晚也没有政客遇害、受伤或被阻挠投票。
22 赞2021/1/8
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67 赞2021/1/9
I don't buy this. Look at video of the riot police in all the cities with the George Floyd riots. Rubber bullets, year gas, MRAPs, armies of riot cops. I don't support this kind of militaristic policing, but for fucks sake if it doesn't show some sort of favoritism when one movement gets the active national security threat treatment when vandalizing their local Walmart and the other is allowed to walk into the capitol? And if your answer to this is "well the cops at the Capitol were unprepared and we're denied backup", this just furthers the point. These events were similarly planned. There was ample evidence on socials that this could be an extremely volatile and violent situation, maybe even more evidence than the George Floyd riots.
我可不买账。去看看乔治·弗洛伊德抗议期间，各城市防暴警察的视频吧。
橡胶子弹、催泪瓦斯、防地雷反伏击车（MRAPs）、成群结队的防暴警。
我并不支持这种军事化的警务手段，但老天爷啊，这难道不明显是有偏袒吗？一个运动去洗劫当地沃尔玛时就被当成国家安全威胁来镇压，而另一个运动却能直接大摇大摆走进国会大厦？
如果你给出的理由是“噢，当时国会警察没准备好，支援被拒了”，那这正好更进一步证明了我的观点。这些事件都是有预谋的。社交媒体上有充足的证据表明，这可能会演变成极其动荡和暴力的局面，甚至比乔治·弗洛伊德抗议时的证据还要多。
53 赞2021/1/9
> the other is allowed to walk into the capitol? They got pretty fucking far too. They didn't just get into the Rotunda. They got on the floor of both chambers and into the offices of elected officials and even the speak of the house's office, second in line to the presidency. I'm no fan of police, but democracy must be defended
> 另一个运动却能直接大摇大摆走进国会大厦？
他们可真是进了不少地方，他妈的远着呢。他们不只是进了圆形大厅，还闯入了两个议院的议事厅，进了民选官员的办公室，甚至连众议院议长的办公室都没放过——那可是总统继任顺位第二的人啊。我虽然不是警察的拥趸，但民主必须得到捍卫。
36 赞2021/1/8
>Really, once you take account of the fact that they were criminally underprepared, everything else slots into place. Thats not an excuse when they are actively waving people in, taking selfies with the mob, standing by when a mob attempts to violently break through the secret service's barrier... Thats criminally something, but not underprepared.
说真的，一旦你考虑到他们是“犯罪式”的准备不足，剩下的事情就全都能解释得通了。
但当他们主动招手让人进去、跟暴徒自拍、站在一旁看着暴徒试图暴力冲破特勤局的防线时……这就不是借口了。
那是“犯罪式”的别的什么东西，但绝不是“准备不足”。
33 赞2021/1/9
If yoy look at the cops faces, the one with the AR, he is panicked. He doesn't know what to do or where to go. He's in the thick of it. He's leaderless. The plainclothes officer is somewhat keeping his cool, and is trying to tell the uniformed one something, and they fall back. Theres no way they would've willing been where they were if they were in communication with the officer on the other side of that door. That officer fired at a woman with police behind her. It was chaos. It was a failure of leadership, planning, coordination, and communication. Could some have been in on it? Possibly...but not likely the majority. The majority were simply left out in the wind.
如果你看看那些警察的脸，拿AR步枪的那个家伙，他慌了。他不知道该干嘛，也不知道该往哪走。他身处漩涡中心，完全没了主心骨。那个便衣倒还算冷静，正试图告诉制服警察些什么，然后他们撤退了。
如果他们当时能和门另一头的警察保持联络，他们绝不可能心甘情愿地待在那儿。那个开枪的警察身后还有其他警员。当时就是一片混乱。
这就是领导力、规划、协调和沟通的全盘失败。可能有些人参与了其中吗？有可能……但绝大多数人不太可能。绝大多数人纯粹就是被晾在一边自生自灭了。
23 赞2021/1/9
You may want to edit you second paragraph as well. The man who fired the shot was a sworn Capitol Police officer not secret service. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/08/jonathan-brostoff/capitol-police-not-secret-service-shot-and-killed-/
你可能想把第二段也改一下。那个开枪的人是宣誓就职的国会警察，而不是特勤局特工。
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/08/jonathan-brostoff/capitol-police-not-secret-service-shot-and-killed-/
16 赞2021/1/9
I'm more surprised by the lack of more security at the Capitol knowing that the storm would take place beforehand. I mean, it's the Capitol, so it's safe to assume security would/should be tight. If it's so easy for the crowd to break in like that, imagine what is going through other terrorists' mind right now.
说实话，明明提前就知道会有冲击事件，国会大厦的安保竟然这么拉跨，这点更让我震惊。我的意思是，那可是国会大厦啊，理所当然应该戒备森严才对。如果连一群乌合之众都能这么轻易地闯进去，真不敢想现在其他恐怖分子心里在盘算些什么。
61 赞2021/1/8
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34 赞2021/1/8
That video has some unexplained digital zooming on it as he waves. We don't know who the cop was really waving in. There is a possibility he was signaling to other officers to fall back. We don't know all the facts yet.
那段视频里，在他挥手的时候，画面有种说不清道不明的数码变焦感。我们根本不知道那警察到底是在招呼谁进来。也有可能他当时是在打手势让其他警员撤退。毕竟咱们现在还没掌握所有真相呢。
31 赞2021/1/8
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19 赞2021/1/8
From what I have seen or read, the police were moving up to where the woman was shot. They arrived there just as she got shot. It does seem like some police officers were making life for the rioters easier, but in that one instance it didn’t seem like the cops let the woman try to get through the door, they just didn’t get to the door in time to stop it. But overall it’s baffling how unprepared capital police were.
从我目前看到和读到的信息来看，当时警察正在向那名女子中枪的位置靠拢。他们赶到的时候，刚好她就中枪了。虽然确实有些警员看起来是在给暴徒行方便，但在那次具体的事件中，警察似乎并不是故意放那名女子过门，他们只是没能及时赶到门口去阻拦。
不过总的来说，国会警察竟然会如此缺乏准备，简直让人匪夷所思。
30 赞2021/1/8
There is video, of the crowd trying to push through the barricade moments before the shot. The cops are standing to the side doing nothing. Then they start heading down the stairs. No idea why. They only turn around when the shot is fired, at which point they come back up the stairs, one of them momentarily points his ar15 towards where the shot was fired from, before probably realizing who fired the shot and that it wasnt one of the mob. Its very clear on video
有段视频拍到了枪声响前几分钟，人群试图冲破路障的画面。
警察们站在一边，啥也不干。
然后他们开始往下走楼梯，不知道为啥。
直到枪声响起他们才转过身，这时他们又跑回楼梯上，其中一个警察把他的AR-15步枪短时间指向了开枪的方向，估计后来意识到是谁开的枪，也发现那并不是暴徒干的。
视频里拍得清清楚楚。
37 赞2021/1/8
There's some pretty damning shit starting to filter out. From Natasha Bertrand's twitter:
"Meanwhile, a current Metro D.C. police officer on the scene yesterday said in a public Facebook post that off-duty police officers and members of the military, who were among the rioters, flashed their badges and I.D. cards as they attempted to overrun the Capitol." https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1347327314363904006?s=20 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/justice-department-warns-of-national-security-fallout-from-capitol-hill-insurrection/ar-BB1czaNB?fbclid=IwAR0WTIyLB__3d4LpRzzkal9m1dOZjwRsdj-jHSzIi-MJIyBmHrT9wSyvfOU
一些相当锤死人的料开始传出来了。
来自Natasha Bertrand的推特：
“与此同时，一名昨天在现场的现役华盛顿特区警官在Facebook公开帖中称，身处暴徒之中的休班警察和军方人员在试图攻占国会大厦时，曾亮出过警徽和身份证件。”
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1347327314363904006?s=20
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/justice-department-warns-of-national-security-fallout-from-capitol-hill-insurrection/ar-BB1czaNB?fbclid=IwAR0WTIyLB__3d4LpRzzkal9m1dOZjwRsdj-jHSzIi-MJIyBmHrT9wSyvfOU
34 赞2021/1/8
Except last week we saw several state houses overrun by the very same people who crossed police lines and broke into them all while ignoring police orders. So while that’s possible that they didn’t feel like these people wouldn’t cross police lines because blue lives “whatever”, that’s not a very good argument to make as there was literal proof these idiots were going to do the same thing to the US capital.
可就在上周，我们亲眼看到几座州议会大厦被同一群人冲垮了，他们越过警戒线、强行闯入，完全无视警察的指令。所以，虽然他们当时可能觉得这些人不会越过警戒线，理由是所谓的“撑警”啥的，但这根本站不住脚，因为有实实在在的证据表明，这些傻X就是要对美国国会大厦干同样的事儿。
20 赞2021/1/9
The level of negligence needed for this to not have been actively supported is so staggering it easily overcomes the base assumption of negligence. The exact same situation happened in the last 6 months, with a vastly different response. It was a obvious event, known to be taking place well in advance. The only possible level of negligence is that sympathy with the protestors led to not increasing man power. Now replace protestors with a foreign power and sympathy means your a traitor.
要达到这种程度的失职，且并非出于主动支持，简直令人震惊到甚至推翻了“疏忽大意”这一最基本的假设。过去半年里发生过完全相同的情况，但当时的处理结果却大相径庭。这是一场显而易见的事件，而且大家早就知道它要发生。唯一合理的“失职”解释就是：正是由于对抗议者的同情，才导致没去增派人手。现在，如果把抗议者换成外国势力，那这种“同情”就意味着你是叛徒。
19 赞2021/1/8
> never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. I dunno, I've seen this peddled so often over the years and I'm beginning to feel like it lets so many malicious people off the hook when people dismiss their malevolence as mere stupidity.
> 永远不要把能用愚蠢解释的事情归结为恶意。
我不知道该怎么说，这些年来我看到这句话被到处兜售，我开始觉得，当人们把恶意轻描淡写为纯粹的愚蠢时，这反而让许多居心叵测的人逃脱了制裁。
27 赞2021/1/8
Well the capitol police were taking selfies with protestors so that’s a thing
噢，国会大厦的警察当时还在跟抗议者自拍呢，所以这事儿……你懂的。
51 赞2021/1/8
The argument that the police outside the capitol were somehow duped or overwhelmed by the insurrectionists is undercut by footage such as [this](https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1347320039490387968) which shows officers not only opening the barriers but also waving groups onto the Capitol grounds beyond the barricades. Footage from the shooting of the woman inside the building shows 3 officers standing around talking (coordinating) with people assaulting the barricaded doors, and they do not choose to do anything to control the situation until AFTER the woman is shot. There were clearly members of the Capitol Police who CHOSE to assist or at least act complicit in the assault on the Capitol building. The narrative they were somehow too scared to resist or execute their duty and their oaths is at best an excuse for craven, cowardly behaviour from people that are given the trust and means to defend, physically, the insitutions of America. At worst, it is revisionist attempt to whitewash support of a violent coup.
29 赞2021/1/8
Can't speak to the shooting but one of the problems with cell footage like this is that the videographer tends to focus on the action (the waving cop) and not the context. So - random aside - I spent a number of years doing photography back in the day. Ran a darkroom, did some freelance for local papers, that kind of thing. News photographers LOVE their 35mm lenses and the reason they do is that at 35mm shapes aren't that distorted but you get a really good view of what's going on in context. 200mm highlights a detail. 85mm shows a subject. 35mm tells a story. I can't tell who or what this cop is waving at and so I'm hesitant to condemn him for a half second arm motion, without context. Now... it does look pretty shitty. But, and I really can't stress this enough, **we can't afford to be wrong about this stuff**. Every false accusation that's made undermines the very real crimes and very real attack upon the foundations of our democracy. We have to be sure.
我没法对枪击事件发表看法，但这种手机拍摄的视频有个问题，就是拍摄者往往只盯着动作（比如那个挥手的警察），而忽略了上下文。
这么说吧——顺便提一嘴——我当年干过几年摄影，自己搞过暗房，也给当地报纸做过自由撰稿，就那类活儿。新闻摄影师特别钟爱35mm镜头，原因就在于35mm拍出来的影像变形不大，而且能把正在发生的事件背景交代得清清楚楚。
200mm镜头突出细节，85mm镜头聚焦主体，而35mm镜头讲的是故事。
我没法看清那个警察到底在对谁或什么东西挥手，所以仅凭半秒钟的动作，在没有语境的情况下，我不愿轻易谴责他。当然……这看起来确实挺烂的。但是，我必须再三强调一点，**在这个问题上我们绝不能搞错**。
任何一次错误的指控，都会削弱那些真实存在的犯罪行为以及对我们民主根基的真实攻击的影响力。
我们必须确保事实无误。
29 赞2021/1/8
I had hoped I could have this discussion without posting a link to video of this woman's death, but apparently that is impossible. Here is a link to a [synced, multiple view of the incident.](https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/ksgvin/hes_got_a_gun_synced_videos_showing_woman_not/) ***NSFL IMAGES OF SOMEONE BEING SHOT AND KILLED*** Note that officers in face masks are WALKING AWAY from people trying to smash their way through the barricades and are choosing to allow this to continue. Officers in tac gear see and hear what is going on and CHOOSE to do nothing. This is not some "the lens creates a narrative" mitigation, this is evidence of indifference.
我本以为能在不发布那名女性死亡视频链接的情况下进行这场讨论，但显然这不可能。这是[同步了多个视角的事件视频链接。](https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/ksgvin/hes_got_a_gun_synced_videos_showing_woman_not/) ***包含有人被枪杀的画面，引起不适请慎点*** 注意，戴口罩的警察当时正从那些试图暴力拆毁路障的人身边走开，他们选择了放任这种行为继续。身穿战术装备的警察明明看得到、听得到现场正在发生什么，却“选择”袖手旁观。这可不是什么“镜头制造叙事”的借口，这是漠视职守的铁证。
17 赞2021/1/8
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25 赞2021/1/8
Im sorry, but you are wrong, it was active sedition, full stop. I appreciate Hanlon’s razor with the best of them, but to allow them this concession allows them to re-galvanize in a few weeks or a few years. This absolutely cannot stand, and to give them the cop-out of Hanlon’s razor “oh they were just well-intentioned idiots”, allows them the opportunity of plausible deniability “we had no idea they would do this!” Yes they knew, and yes they did nothing. Please stop trying to appeal to their better side. These people are American-born terrorists, plain and simple. To not prosecute and punish them to the fullest extent of the law allows them to ebb back into the shadows while they grow their forces and try again.
不好意思，但你说错了，这就是赤裸裸的煽动叛乱，没得商量。
我也和大家一样推崇“汉隆剃刀定律”（别有用心论），但如果在这件事上给他们留这种余地，就等于让他们在几周或几年后卷土重来。这种情况绝对不能姑息，如果用“汉隆剃刀”给他们找借口，说“哦，他们只是一群好心办坏事的蠢货”，就等于给了他们“合理推诿”的机会，让他们能说“我们哪知道他们会干这种事啊！”
没错，他们就是知道，而且什么都没做。求求你们别再试图感化他们那所谓的“良知”了。这些人就是土生土长的美国恐怖分子，说白了就是这样。如果不动用法律手段对他们进行起诉和最严厉的惩罚，只会让他们缩回阴影里休养生息，壮大势力后再来搞一次。
844 赞2021/1/8
I really wonder how people would’ve felt if they just unloaded on them though...like that would look fucking terrible imo. Just a lose lose situation.
说实话，我真好奇要是当时直接开火了大家会怎么想……我觉得那画面绝对会烂透了。简直就是个双输的局面。
395 赞2021/1/8
Definitely. International horror scene that you can't talk around as it was the center of the nation's capital.
确实。这会是一场没法圆过去的国际丑闻，毕竟这可是发生在国家首都的心脏地带。
455 赞2021/1/8
*laughs in Tiananmen Square*
*在天安门广场大笑*
303 赞2021/1/8
*cries in Tiananmen Square*
*在天安门广场痛哭*
178 赞2021/1/8
>cries in Tiananmen Square Cries in ------------------
>在天安门广场痛哭
在------------------中痛哭
38 赞2021/1/9
Guffaws in Kent State
在肯特州立大学笑出声（注：此处为反讽，借用肯特州立大学枪击事件影射“暴力镇压”）。
50 赞2021/1/9
China: What? Nothing happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989. Absolutely nothing!
中国：什么？1989年在天安门广场什么都没发生。绝对什么都没发生！
32 赞2021/1/9
Those people self-flattened and you know it!
那些人是自己把自己压扁的，你心里清楚！
36 赞2021/1/9
*You have been permanently banned from
*你已被永久禁止进入 社区*
20 赞2021/1/9
Jesus Christ even just the first few posts are a shitshow
天哪，光是看看头几篇帖子就已经乱成一锅粥了。
24 赞2021/1/8
Yea definitely more accurate
没错，确实更准了。
15 赞2021/1/9
*tin soldiers and Nixon comin. We're finally on our own*
*锡兵和尼克松要来了。我们终究还是得靠自己了。*
67 赞2021/1/9
That’s what I am thinking. I hear all these people saying we should’ve just gunned them down, but that would look fucking terrible. Gunning down your own citizens? Yeah they were doing something stupid, but it would reflect poorly having hundreds of dead bodies at our capital.
我也是这么想的。我听见周围这些人嚷嚷说早该把他们全突突了，但那场面看起来绝对烂透了。把自己的公民突突了？没错，他们干的事儿是挺蠢，但要是国会大厦躺着几百具尸体，这影响也太恶劣了。
109 赞2021/1/9
They didn’t need to gun them down but they seem to be able to shut down other protests, even peaceful ones, so there is absolutely a way to prevent what happened the other day.
他们确实没必要动枪，但他们平时明明有本事平息各种抗议，哪怕是和平抗议也一样，所以绝对有办法阻止前几天那种事发生。
51 赞2021/1/9
I’m not saying they handled it correctly, I just think gunning them down would also be handling it wrong.
我不是说他们处理得就对，我只是觉得直接开枪把人突突了也是处理得不对。
84 赞2021/1/9
Way more options than gunning them down. Lots of options between gunning down and doing absolutely nothing.
可选的法子多的是，非得开枪不可吗？在“直接突突”和“啥也不做”之间，还有大把的选择。
26 赞2021/1/9
They could have taken a page out of the DC police playbook from June. Pepper Spray and tear gas go a long way in dispersing an unlawful crowd.
他们本可以参考下六月份华盛顿警方的路数。撒点胡椒喷雾和催泪瓦斯，驱散非法聚集的人群效果还是很明显的。
23 赞2021/1/9
I agree up to the point where the Congress people’s lives were in danger. For example, if they had stormed faster and they were banging on the doors or getting closer with speed as Pence and everyone else was inside before they could evacuate, I’d have no issue with firing past a certain “no return point” or something because that would be such an issue. Imagine if they took some of them hostage or something.
我同意这一观点，直到国会议员的生命受到威胁那一刻为止。举个例子，如果他们当时冲得更快，在彭斯和其他人撤离前，就已经疯狂撞门或者迅速逼近了，那我绝对支持在过了某个“无法回头点”后直接开火，因为那情况就完全不同了。想象一下，要是他们劫持了其中某些人质什么的，那还得了。
35 赞2021/1/9
That's exactly what happened. That's why the 35 y/o woman was shot, because she tried to scale the last barricade between the protesters and the people working in the Capitol.
那正是当时发生的情况。所以那个35岁的女人才会被开枪击毙，因为她当时试图翻越抗议者与国会大厦工作人员之间的最后一道路障。
49 赞2021/1/9
That's exactly what happened to the terrorist that was shot and killed. She was attempting to breach the last hallway between Capitol police/Secret Service and where Pence and the senators were being held.
那正是那个被击毙的恐怖分子所遭遇的情况。她当时正试图强行闯入国会警察/特勤局与彭斯及参议员们所在的避难区域之间的最后一条走廊。
94 赞2021/1/9
Like how [the National Guard murdered four students](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings) at Kent State University in 1970? No, not a great look.
就跟1970年肯特州立大学国民警卫队枪杀四名学生那样吗？不，那可真不是什么光彩的事。
24 赞2021/1/9
Worst part is that at the time most Americans approved of the shooting. Should be something about it on the wiki.
最糟糕的部分是，当时大多数美国人还支持那次枪击。维基百科上应该有相关内容。
69 赞2021/1/9
That was a different situation. The other day people were literally climbing the walls of the capitol building, which goes beyond protest and goes onto takeover. What they did was not ok. There are points between do nothing and shoot everyone. We have more security at an airport than we do at our nations capitol.
那是另一种情况了。前几天那些人简直是在往国会大厦的墙上爬，那已经不是抗议，而是占领了。他们做的事情根本说不过去。在“什么都不做”和“见人就开枪”之间，显然还有很多折中办法。咱们机场的安保措施都比国家国会大厦还要严。
91 赞2021/1/8
No need if they had enough people in the first place manning barricades. No need if they used rubber bullets and tear gas....
要是他们一开始就在路障那儿安排足够的人手，根本就用不着这样。要是他们用了橡皮子弹和催泪瓦斯，也根本就用不着这样……
45 赞2021/1/9
and maybe different barricades than the ones used for the line for a ride at the fair.
而且路障或许该换种设法，而不是用那种游乐场排队用的护栏。
176 赞2021/1/8
When you look at photos like this & photos of disabled protesters being forcefully removed, makes you think about how easily the cops let those terrorists in to trash the place. What a disgrace.
当你看看这样的照片，再看看残障抗议者被强行拖走的照片，真的让人不得不深思，警察到底是多随意才把那些恐怖分子放进去把那儿砸个稀巴烂的。真是丢人现眼。
20 赞2021/1/9
Damn these were the worst terrorists ever.
靠，这帮人绝对是史上最废柴的恐怖分子了。
99 赞2021/1/9
This picture is fascinating to me. It's not just the context of a soldier on the steps of the Capital, but I wonder what the man was thinking about as he stood there. I suspect a lot of soldiers in that position would be asking themselves if they would be capable of using that machine gun on citizens.
这张照片真让我着迷。不仅仅是因为士兵站在国会大厦台阶上这个背景，我更好奇的是，那个男人当时站在那儿心里在想些什么。我猜很多处于那种位置的士兵，内心都会问自己：如果是自己，真的能对着平民扣动那挺机枪的扳机吗？
29 赞2021/1/9
Just don't lead as much. /s
只要别预判太多就行。/s（反讽）
58 赞2021/1/9
Allowing them all to leave is worse than letting them in. But, again, this *is* the same country that allowed armed militia to take over a Federal building and occupy it for thirty days. Brought them cigarettes and luxury items as they lounged around playing fucking video games. They killed Fred Hampton **in his bedroom**, he had an *actual*, legitimate gripe, and purpose.
让他们全跑了，比当初放他们进来还要烂。但话说回来，这可是同一个国家，当初连武装民兵占领联邦大楼、在那儿赖上三十天都睁一只眼闭一只眼。
还给他们送烟、送奢侈品，让他们在那儿优哉游哉地打他妈的电子游戏。
他们当时可是直接在卧室里干掉了弗雷德·汉普顿（Fred Hampton），人家好歹是有正儿八经的诉求和抱负的。
46 赞2021/1/8
The poor working class ordered to kill their own, yet again.
可怜的工薪阶层又一次被指使去自相残杀。
22 赞2021/1/8
This gave me a hilariously absurd image in my head of Pelosi and McConnell, laughing maniacally, mowing down rioters with M60s.
这画面在我脑子里简直荒谬得搞笑：佩洛西和麦康奈尔在那儿狂笑不止，端着 M60 机枪扫射暴徒。
41 赞2021/1/8
Thank goodness they've made changes to how they respond to riots
谢天谢地，他们总算改了应对暴乱的方式了。
40 赞2021/1/8
I know what people are gonna comment under here, and I was considering it too, but just *don't*.
我知道大家要在下面评论什么，我也考虑过要不要发，但还是*别发了*。
207 赞2021/1/8
Yeah the M60 was a bad design for a machinegun. There. I said it.
对，M60 这款机枪的设计确实烂。好了，我说了。
33 赞2021/1/8
Good thing it isnt in service anymore
好在它已经退役不用了。
25 赞2021/1/8
What's wrong with the design of the M60?
M60 的设计到底有啥毛病？
52 赞2021/1/8
It isn't inherently bad, it got a bit of bad reputation as they were overused by the 1980s, but in Vietnam they worked wonders. It also had some flaws in the design but a new modern variant was made solving many of those issues, however they had very few sales, since the US already switched over to a model, the FN MAG, which was already pitted against the M60 in trials when adopted in the late 50s/early 60s [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNVegwmZiQM&ab\_channel=ForgottenWeapons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNVegwmZiQM&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ2LJVcuoaM&ab\_channel=ForgottenWeapons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ2LJVcuoaM&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons) These two vids by the same youtuber, 7 years apart, provide an interesting insight.
其实它本身没那么烂，主要是到了80年代因为被过度使用，名声才变臭了，但在越战那会儿它可是表现得相当给力。
它的设计确实有一些缺陷，后来也出过改进型的现代版本，解决了不少问题。但那玩意儿没卖出多少，因为美军当时已经换装了FN MAG，其实早在50年代末60年代初选型的时候，FN MAG就是M60的竞标对手了。
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNVegwmZiQM&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNVegwmZiQM&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ2LJVcuoaM&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ2LJVcuoaM&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons)
这同一个博主发的两段视频，中间隔了7年，看一看挺有意思的，能让你深入了解这玩意儿。
29 赞2021/1/9
I watched an interview with a veteran officer from the Vietnam War, who said one of his men killed an estimated 200 vietnamese soldiers charging them with one of those machine guns. The carnage it would cause in a bunched up mob is unthinkable.
我看了一个越战老兵的采访，他说他手下有个兵拿着那种机枪冲锋，估计干掉了200个越南兵。那种密集的队形被扫射后的惨状，简直不敢想象。
17 赞2021/1/8
Did he have bullets?
他当时有子弹吗？
33 赞2021/1/8
"Barney, get out your bullet."
“巴尼，把你的那颗子弹拿出来。”
19 赞2021/1/9
I remember a bit from Ken Burns Vietnam where veteran Dr. Roger Harris was mentioning how when he got back from Vietnam, his unit was told to get ready to go out and protect areas from the rioting after the assasination of Martin Luther King and at first he was ready to go as he thought they were going to give them billy clubs and stand infront of buildings and protect businesses, until they started handing out flak jackets, helmets and M14's and M16's with live rounds, the same kind of stuff they were using in Vietnam to fight the Vietcong rather than their own people. He refused to go and he said that's why he thinks he never made Sergeant.
我记得肯·伯恩斯的纪录片《越南战争》里有个片段，退伍军人罗杰·哈里斯医生提到，他从越南刚回来那会儿，部队就接到通知，要准备出动去平息马丁·路德·金遇刺引发的骚乱。起初他也没多想，以为就是发点警棍，站在大楼前保护商铺什么的，结果后来长官开始发防弹背心、钢盔，还有上了实弹的M14和M16步枪——这可跟他之前在越南打越共时用的一模一样，这下竟然要用来对付自己人。他拒绝执行任务，他说这就是为什么他觉得自己这辈子都升不到中士的原因。
14 赞2021/1/9
Hmm gee I wonder why this was posted all of a sudden hmmmm
嗯哼，嘿，我还真是好奇，这玩意儿怎么突然就被发出来了呢，嗯哼。
8 赞2021/1/8
If black ppl might riot, they get all the law enforcement and guns and etc. If white ppl might riot, they move the gates and let them inside and take selfies with them.
如果是黑人可能要闹事，他们就把所有的执法力量、枪支什么的统统搬出来。要是白人可能要闹事，他们就直接撤掉路障把人放进去，还得跟人家玩自拍。
5 赞2021/1/9
[内容已删除]
4 赞2021/1/9
Was there a time in the US when there were NO Riots
美国历史上难道有过一次“完全没有暴乱”的时候吗？
4 赞2021/1/9
tits those are hard to control when grounded like that. Sprays all willy nilly, at least with 240's
那玩意儿要是像那样架着，确实很难控制。喷得到处都是，乱七八糟的，至少用240机枪的时候是这样。
3 赞2021/1/9
Did they remove barricades and let the people
Onto the Capitol?
他们当时是不是撤掉了路障，然后把人给放进国会大厦里去了？
2 赞2021/1/9
2 赞2021/1/9
Well yeah, because none of his friends were in THAT riot
那倒也是，毕竟他那些朋友当时又没去参加那场暴乱。
1 赞2021/1/9
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