"仇恨之眼"——戈培尔得知他的私人秘书是他的犹太情妇后的表情
“仇恨之眼”：1933年9月，戈培尔在得知其摄影师是犹太人后拍摄的照片，摄于日内瓦。（1080×1600）
评论 (161)
sydbobyd4,887 赞2017/11/8
Here is what the photographer said years later about this picture: > In 1933, I traveled to Lausanne and Geneva for the fifteenth session of the League of Nations. There, sitting in the hotel garden, was Dr. Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s minister of propaganda. He smiles, but not at me. He was looking at someone to my left. . . . Suddenly he spotted me and I snapped him. His expression changed. Here are the eyes of hate. Was I an enemy? Behind him is his private secretary, Walter Naumann, with the goatee, and Hitler's interpreter, Dr. Paul Schmidt. . . . I have been asked how I felt photographing these men. Naturally, not so good, but when I have a camera in my hand I know no fear. [Source.](http://time.com/3880669/goebbels-in-geneva-1933-behind-a-classic-alfred-eisenstaedt-photo/)
以下是摄影师多年后对这张照片的评价：
> 1933年，我前往洛桑和日内瓦报道第十五届国际联盟会议。当时，希特勒的宣传部长约瑟夫·戈培尔博士正坐在酒店花园里。他在笑，但不是对着我笑。他当时在看我左侧的某个人……突然他发现了我，我立马按下了快门。他的表情瞬间变了。这就是那种充满仇恨的眼神。我当时是他的敌人吗？他身后那个留着山羊胡子的是他的私人秘书沃尔特·瑙曼，还有希特勒的翻译保罗·施密特博士……有人问我拍摄这些人时是什么感觉。当然，感觉不怎么好，但只要我手里拿着相机，我就什么都不怕。[来源。](http://time.com/3880669/goebbels-in-geneva-1933-behind-a-classic-alfred-eisenstaedt-photo/)
tempest_363,605 赞2017/11/8
The headline makes it sound like the photographer *just* told him he was Jewish like he was on some antisemitic version of Candid Camera. Here, it suggests that Goebbels recognized him visually as Jewish.
这标题起得，听起来好像是摄影师“刚”跟他说自己是犹太人，搞得跟什么反犹太版的《隐藏的摄像机》（Candid Camera）整蛊节目似的。但这儿的情况分明是戈培尔一眼就认出他是犹太人了。
DdCno11,452 赞2017/11/8
I read about this photo elsewhere before and it appears that one of Goebbel's associates mentioned to Goebbels that the photographer was Jewish.
我之前在别的地方读过关于这张照片的介绍，看来是戈培尔的一个随从当时提醒了他，说这个摄影师是犹太人。
BBQ_HaX0r749 赞2017/11/9
I was gonna say how would that come up, but then again we're dealing with arguably the most antisemitic people in history. Was this sort of thing common? "Hey, this your photographer. He's Jewish."
我本来还想问这事儿怎么会扯上关系的，但转念一想，毕竟我们面对的可是历史上最反犹的那帮人，这也不足为奇了。这种事儿当时很常见吗？
“嘿，这是给你拍照的摄影师。他是犹太人。”
DdCno1741 赞2017/11/9
One factor is probably that Eisenstaedt was very well known in 1933 already. He was one of the most prominent photojournalists of the time. It's not difficult to imagine people recognizing him.
其中一个原因可能是，艾森士塔特（Eisenstaedt）在1933年时就已经非常出名了。他是当时最顶尖的摄影记者之一。不难想象有人能认出他来。
BBQ_HaX0r180 赞2017/11/9
Thanks. Did not know that. Spend the past 5 minutes looking through some of his photos. Quite the guy.
谢了。我之前还真不知道。过去这5分钟我一直在看他的作品。真是个牛人。
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BBQ_HaX0r82 赞2017/11/9
[Here](https://www.icp.org/browse/archive/constituents/alfred-eisenstaedt?all/all/all/all/0). Also, google/wiki turns up some cool stuff too if you're in a rush.
[这里](https://www.icp.org/browse/archive/constituents/alfred-eisenstaedt?all/all/all/all/0)有相关资料。如果你赶时间的话，Google 或者维基百科上也能搜到不少酷玩意儿。
Sardonnicus123 赞2017/11/9
More than likely Goebbels was focused on the guy with the paper and Eisenstaedt snapped a picture of him. Then Goebbels realized someone had taken his picture and looked towards the photographer as one would naturally do when one realizes that someone has taken a picture of them. Then recognizing that the photographer was Eisenstaedt which happened because Eisenstaedt was already a well known photographer, Goebbels flashed those eyes of disgust at his heritage and Eisenstaedt snapped a second picture.
戈培尔当时大概率正盯着拿纸的那个人看，然后艾森斯塔特（Eisenstaedt）顺手给他拍了一张。
接着，戈培尔意识到有人在拍他，于是就顺势看向摄影师的方向，这完全是人在发现被偷拍时的自然反应。
随后，因为艾森斯塔特当时已经是名声在外的摄影师了，戈培尔认出了他，于是那个眼神里流露出了对他血统的厌恶——就在那一刻，艾森斯塔特拍下了第二张照片。
matholio28 赞2017/11/9
About 2 seconds in messy real-life.
在混乱的现实生活中，这前前后后也就两秒钟的事儿。
mrblue18241 赞2017/11/9
Wouldn't be a very good minister of propaganda if he couldn't recognize prominent journalists
如果他连知名记者都认不出来，那他这个宣传部长当得也太不称职了。
The-Beeper-King15 赞2017/11/9
I'd imagine it was a comment made often under their breath. Like "there's another one" type of thing.
我猜这大概是他们私底下常嘀咕的一句话。就那种“瞧，又来一个”之类的意思。
eatelectricity24 赞2017/11/9
>...arguably the most antisemitic people... I feel like that might be inarguable at this point...
>……可以说是最反犹太的一群人……
我觉得这一点现在恐怕已经没什么好争辩的了……
zadraaa283 赞2017/11/8
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thebrownkid99 赞2017/11/9
On [this link](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/goebbels-eisenstaedt-1933/) it says: > But how did Goebbels found out that the photographer was Jewish? No one know for sure but maybe the surname is what gave it away and Eisenstädt is a distinctly Jewish surname. It’s entirely possible that Goebbels was told his name and drew the easy conclusion that he was Jewish or at least of Jewish heritage.
在 [这个链接](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/goebbels-eisenstaedt-1933/) 里写道：
> 但戈培尔是怎么知道摄影师是犹太人的呢？没人能百分之百确定，但也许是姓氏出卖了他，毕竟“艾森施泰特”（Eisenstädt）是一个非常典型的犹太姓氏。戈培尔很有可能是听到了他的名字，然后顺理成章地推断出他是犹太人，或者至少有犹太血统。
vkraeuchi119 赞2017/11/9
But why male models?
不过话说回来，为什么要找男模？
[已删除]40 赞2017/11/9
Two likelihoods: The photographer was famous (true) and Goebbles already knew him as a Jew by reputation or just by his name. Or, the staffer casually mentioned the photographer taking his picture is a Jew, and then he turned and looked.
有两种可能性：要么是摄影师很有名（事实如此），戈培尔早就从名声或是名字上知道他是犹太人。要么就是工作人员随口提了一句正在拍照的摄影师是个犹太人，然后他转头看了一眼。
apolotary130 赞2017/11/8
It's like that collage with before and after photos of people being told they are beautiful, but with Jews
这就像那些拼贴照一样，展示人们在被告知自己很美前后的对比，只不过这次换成了犹太人。
balint-uni27 赞2017/11/8
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Guano_Loco16 赞2017/11/9
At the bottom of this page is him giving a real toothy smile. He's unrecognizable as the same rage faced man in the OP. It's crazy.
这页最底下有他露齿大笑的照片。你根本认不出这就是原帖里那个满脸怒容的家伙。简直绝了。
Blackrook752 赞2017/11/8
What's hilarious is that visually I immediately recognized Goebbels as being Jewish. Goes to show how stereotypes fail us all.
最搞笑的是，我第一眼看戈培尔的时候，居然觉得他长得像犹太人。这正好说明刻板印象这玩意儿有多不靠谱。
idosillythings135 赞2017/11/9
I once went to a mosque where I was the only white person there. I don't really mind that but I was new there and when you're a new white person showing up to mosque you sometimes get these weird looks like "What's the FBI doing here?" I suddenly see a guy with red hair, fair skin, freckles and green eyes. Like a real life freaking Leprechaun but taller. I thought "awesome, another white person, I can joke about how much we stick out." Suddenly he comes up to me and starts asking me about myself and I can't understand a word he's saying through his accent. Turns out he was ethnically Pakistani, from a part of Pakistan where most people are fair skinned. From that day on, I really try not to let my stereotypes get the better of me.
有次我去了一座清真寺，那里就我一个白人。
我倒是不介意，但我当时是新来的。当你作为一个白人新面孔出现在清真寺时，有时会收到那种怪异的眼神，仿佛在说：“FBI跑这儿来干嘛？”
突然，我看到一个红头发、皮肤白皙、长满雀斑、绿眼睛的哥们儿。简直就像现实版的爱尔兰小矮妖，不过个头更高点。
我心想：“太棒了，又来个白人，我俩正好能吐槽一下咱俩在这儿有多显眼。”
结果他突然朝我走过来开始问东问西，但我听得云里雾里的，他那口音实在太重了，我一个字都听不懂。
后来才知道，他是巴基斯坦裔，来自巴基斯坦一个盛产白皮肤人的地区。
从那天起，我真的尽量不让自己被刻板印象给带偏了。
[已删除]88 赞2017/11/9
> Turns out he was ethnically Pakistani, from a part of Pakistan where most people are fair skinned. I've met lots of Pakistani and Afghani people who were very fair skinned with green eyes. The problem with stereotypes isn't that they're wrong, they're *incomplete*.
> 原来他是巴基斯坦裔，来自巴基斯坦一个大部分人都肤色白皙的地区。
我见过很多巴基斯坦人和阿富汗人，他们皮肤都很白，还有绿眼睛。
刻板印象的问题不在于它们是错的，而在于它们是*不完整*的。
[已删除]123 赞2017/11/9
Stereotypes are necessary to abbreviate the cognitive load that is required in processing all the information we're exposed to quickly enough to function. They're natural and inherent to human cognition. That also means that we must educate ourselves to recognize when we're employing them and modulate our behavior accordingly.
刻板印象是必要的，因为我们需要通过它们来简化认知负担，这样才能在处理海量信息时保持足够快的反应来维持正常生活。这是人类认知中自然且固有的部分。这也意味着我们必须不断学习，意识到自己在何时运用了刻板印象，并相应地调节自己的行为。
[已删除]18 赞2017/11/9
There was a sizable greek population in central asia following Alexander the Great's invasion of India, from what I've read.
据我所读到的，在亚历山大大帝入侵印度之后，中亚地区曾存在过相当大数量的希腊人群体。
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gentrifiedasshole39 赞2017/11/9
I'm Syrian, but I've lived most of my life in the US. One time, I was visiting Syria, and as I was walking down the street, I saw a whole family of fair skinned ginger people. I turned to my cousin and I asked him "What are Irish people doing here?" They must have heard me because the dad turned to me, and in perfect Arabic, said "We're not from Ireland you idiot. I'm more Syrian than you are." Later, I found out that there are some families in Syria and Iraq that are very fair skinned. Some of them are redheads, some of them blond, but you wouldn't expect it in Syria or Iraq. Some of them claim that they're descendants of Crusaders from Europe, others claim that they're from ethnic groups that existed long before the Arabs conquered the Middle East, like those blonde people I mentioned.
我是叙利亚人，但我大半辈子都住在美国。有一次我去叙利亚玩，走在街上的时候，看到了一家子皮肤白皙的红毛（ginger）。我转头问我表亲：“爱尔兰人跑这儿来干嘛？”他们肯定听见我说啥了，因为那个当爹的转过头，用一口贼溜的阿拉伯语回我：“老子不是爱尔兰人，你个傻X。我比你还要叙利亚。”
后来我才知道，叙利亚和伊拉克那边确实有些家族皮肤特别白。有的头发是红的，有的头发是金的，但在叙利亚或伊拉克这种地方，你根本想不到会有这种长相。有的家族自称是欧洲十字军的后裔，有的则说他们是阿拉伯人征服中东之前就存在的族群，就像我刚才说的那些金发的人。
[已删除]17 赞2017/11/9
The wrestler [Sami Zayn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_Zayn) is of Syrian descent but I always thought he was Irish because he's a ginger and that he usually enters wearing a caddy-cap.
摔角手 Sami Zayn 是叙利亚裔，但我一直以为他是爱尔兰人，因为他长着一头红发，而且出场时老爱戴个报童帽（caddy-cap）。
manwithfaceofbird22 赞2017/11/9
Jesus christ man. He's not an immigrant. He is a native born Canadian. It's literally in the first sentence of the wikipedia page.
我的天呐，老兄。
他根本不是移民，他是土生土长的加拿大人。
维基百科的第一句话写得清清楚楚。
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Thanks for the correction! I don't really follow wrestling, but my roommate sure does, and he told me he was a refugee actually. So my bad for not double checking.
多谢纠错！我对摔跤其实不太关注，但我室友倒是铁粉，他跟我说了那人其实是难民。没核实清楚是我的锅。
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I think these mistakes were quite a bit more common up until fairly recently (probably like 1950s or later). If someone wasn't very well known or in a major position of power (yes, this guy seems to have made it to that point eventually but at this time he might've been less well known). There wasn't a whole lot in the way of ability to verify some of this stuff when wire cables were the primary means of international communication and little published information on some of these people.
我觉得这类错误直到最近（大概1950年代或以后）都还挺常见的。如果某人当时名气没那么大，或者还没爬到什么核心高位（没错，这家伙最后确实爬上去了，但在当时可能还没那么出名的话），那确实很难搞。毕竟那时候跨国通讯主要靠电报，关于这些人的公开资料也少之又少，想核实某些信息根本没啥靠谱的渠道。
rararasputin17 赞2017/11/9
They're directly quoting the photographer's book. Should have a [sic] or something in there, but they didn't screw up his name themselves.
他们这是直接引用了摄影师书里的内容。虽然加个 [sic]（原文如此）啥的会好点，但名字拼错这事儿其实不是他们自己搞砸的。
omarcomin64720 赞2017/11/9
> I have been asked how I felt photographing these men. Naturally, not so good, but when I have a camera in my hand I know no fear. i like this quote a lot. what a badass.
> 有人问我拍摄这些人时是什么感觉。说实话，感觉不太好，但只要我手里拿着相机，我就什么都不怕了。
我超爱这句话。太硬核了。
GeneralMachete33 赞2017/11/8
That’s the kind of things we should show to kids at school, there is so much to learn about this moment even in 2017. Freedom of journalism, propaganda, etc.
这才是我们该在学校教给孩子们的东西，即便是在2017年，这段历史里也还有太多值得学习的教训。比如新闻自由、政治宣传等等。
4,514 赞2017/11/8
Photo of him a few [moments before ](
)
)他在几[分钟前]()拍下的照片。
)拍下的照片。2,732 赞2017/11/8
Makes me think of Willem Dafoe as the green goblin.
让我想起了演绿魔的威廉·达福。
1,804 赞2017/11/9
Before: Willem Dafriend After: Willem Dafoe
之前：Willem Dafriend（威廉·达友）
之后：Willem Dafoe（威廉·达福）
78 赞2017/11/9
I had to [laugh like Negan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5W3DYxu4V8) about that one.
看到这个我真的忍不住[像尼根那样大笑](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5W3DYxu4V8)出声了。
672 赞2017/11/8
Now you mention it he does actually kind of [look like him](
)
)你这一说，他还真有点像他。
340 赞2017/11/9
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142 赞2017/11/9
Why do elephants paint their toenails red? . .
To hide in cherry trees!
.
.
.
.
You ever seen an elephant in a cherry tree?..........Pretty good at hiding aern't they!
为什么大象要把脚趾甲涂成红色？ . .
为了躲在樱桃树里呀！
.
.
.
.
你见过大象躲在樱桃树里吗？……藏得挺深吧！
20 赞2017/11/9
It’s so they can hide in strawberry bushes
那是为了能躲在草莓丛里啊。
101 赞2017/11/9
Oh god. Now I’m imagining Willem Dafoe playing Goebbels in a movie.
天哪。我现在满脑子都是威廉·达福在电影里演戈培尔的样子。
74 赞2017/11/9
He's exactly the kind of guy who could pull it off too.
而且他还真是那种能把这角色拿捏得死死的人。
105 赞2017/11/9
"There was a holocaust!" *Fires Luger into air*
“发生了一场大屠杀！”
*对着天花板开了一枪鲁格手枪*
20 赞2017/11/9
That scene is amazing. Such a great movie.
那一幕绝了。电影太赞了。
162 赞2017/11/8
Wow, that's an amazing portrait.
哇，这张肖像照拍得太牛了。
16 赞2017/11/9
I did a reverse look up in Google and went through *way* too many links (articles & sites don't credit photographers very often anymore it seems), and from what I can find it looks like it was shot by Alex de Brabant.
我在谷歌上做了个以图搜图，翻了多得离谱的链接（感觉现在文章和网站越来越不给摄影师署名了），根据我能找到的信息来看，这应该是 Alex de Brabant 拍的。
33 赞2017/11/9
Walton Goggins in Vice Principals.
《副校长》里的沃尔顿·戈金斯。
464 赞2017/11/8
That one is even more creepy
那位更是渗人。
52 赞2017/11/9
Yeah, for some reason that kind of full-toothed smile makes me instantly wary.
是啊，不知道为什么，那种露全齿的假笑总让我瞬间警觉起来。
424 赞2017/11/8
Christ, he was really captured well in Inglorious Basterds.
天呐，他在《无耻混蛋》里被还原得太到位了。
226 赞2017/11/8
The actor portraying Goebbels in that film, [Sylvester Groth](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0343857/), also played him in another movie a few years prior.
那部片子里扮演戈培尔的演员 [Sylvester Groth](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0343857/)，在几年前的另一部电影里也演过这角色。
102 赞2017/11/9
Eeeep. Imagine getting typecast as that SOB
噫……真不敢想，要是被定型成那种人渣该有多糟。
257 赞2017/11/8
Same in Downfall, the German movie about Hitler's bunker. I would argue the actor they got to play him in that was the "best" portrayal of Goebbels so far on film. [The guy](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0559890/) is not handsome by any stretch and has these dead, shark eyes. Super creepy, but he did a fantastic job with the role.
在讲希特勒地堡那部德国电影《帝国的毁灭》里也是这样。我觉得他们找来演戈培尔的那位演员，绝对是目前为止电影里“最赞”的一个版本。那哥们儿长得绝对称不上帅，还有一对死鱼眼，像鲨鱼一样。超级渗人，但他把这个角色演得太绝了。
58 赞2017/11/9
Is downfall the meme bunker videos of hitler like flipping out from getting banned from Xbox live (among many others)
《帝国的毁灭》就是那种希特勒在地堡里发飙的鬼畜视频吗？就是那种因为被Xbox Live封号了之后大发雷霆的视频（还有很多其他版本的鬼畜）？
38 赞2017/11/9
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.6691 [^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?](https://pastebin.com/FcrFs94k/75931)
已删除 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.6691 [^^^这是什么意思？](https://pastebin.com/FcrFs94k/75931)
27 赞2017/11/9
Not a documentary though. It's good, but not historically accurate. Hitler is played brilliantly by Bruno Ganz, but the way he speaks has more in common with his public speeches than how he spoke in private. The film is based on the autobiography of Hitler's secretary, which is a highly controversial book, yet makes no effort to distance itself from it and just accepts the things being presented in it as fact. I think the biggest issue this film has is that it looks extremely authentic and is made with such care, has such excellent casting choices and performances, confident cinematography and editing that it's very easy accept it as factually accurate. If you know very little about this topic, it's very important to read a book or two about it before watching this movie, so that you can approach it prepared while still being able to enjoy its qualities.
这片子算不上纪录片。片子拍得不错，但历史还原度不高。布鲁诺·甘茨对希特勒的演绎确实绝了，但他那说话方式更像是在公开演讲，而不是私下交谈的样子。电影是基于希特勒秘书的自传改编的，这书本身争议很大，但电影也没打算跟它拉开距离，反而直接把书里写的那些事儿当成了既定事实。
我觉得这片子最大的问题在于，它看起来太真实、制作太考究了，选角和表演都无可挑剔，镜头语言和剪辑也稳得不行，以至于观众很容易就把它当成史实来看。如果你对这段历史了解不多，看这片子前最好先读几本相关的书，这样既能做到心里有数，又不会影响你欣赏电影本身的高水准。
31 赞2017/11/9
>Hitler is played brilliantly by Bruno Ganz, but the way he speaks has more in common with his public speeches than how he spoke in private. To be fair, there is only one known recording of Hitler having a normal conversation i.e. not making a speech. [The recording](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClR9tcpKZec) features a conversation between Hitler and Mannerheim, the Commander in Chief of the Finnish army. The actor Bruno Ganz modeled his speech based on this recording.
>希特勒的扮演者布鲁诺·甘茨演得确实绝，但他那说话方式更像是在公开演讲，而不是私下交谈的样子。
平心而论，目前留存下来的希特勒进行正常谈话（非演讲）的录音只有一段。[这段录音](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClR9tcpKZec)是希特勒和芬兰军队总司令曼纳海姆的对话。演员布鲁诺·甘茨当时的表演就是参考这段录音来揣摩语气的。
30 赞2017/11/9
That performance of Goebbels in Downfall always stood out to me. I don't know if it's particularly historically accurate but if the actor intended on making the man seem like an incredibly strange man, he entirely succeeded. He really came across as awkward and dull, yet for some reason was still an interesting character.
《帝国的毁灭》里戈培尔的表演一直让我印象深刻。我不知道这在历史上还原得准不准，但如果演员是想把这家伙表现得特别古怪，那他完全做到了。他给人的感觉真的很笨拙、很木讷，但不知为何，这个角色又挺吸引人的。
49 赞2017/11/9
His acting and face was good, yes, but his height put me off more than it should’ve. Goebbels was small and crippled, yet managed to lecture people about how the Herrenmensch should look like. Scary to see how rhetorics and propaganda can transform a man.
他的演技和颜值确实没毛病，但他的身高让我出戏的程度超乎想象。戈培尔明明又矮又瘸，却还能在那大谈特谈“雅利安超人”该长什么样。看到言辞和宣传能把一个人洗脑成这样，真的挺瘆人的。
99 赞2017/11/9
Downfall is scarily accurate in so many ways.
《帝国的毁灭》在很多细节上都还原得令人后怕。
118 赞2017/11/9
So what was it like in the Bunker in those final days my dude?
所以伙计，最后那几天在地堡里到底是个什么光景？
78 赞2017/11/9
Hitler wouldn't stop ranting about "Mein Kraft", whatever that is.
希特勒在那儿没完没了地咆哮着什么“我的麦块”（Mein Kraft），鬼知道那是什么玩意儿。
17 赞2017/11/9
So he just really wanted a bowl of mac 'n' cheese and got so upset he killed himself when he didn't get any, amirite?
所以他其实就是特别想吃碗芝士通心粉，结果没吃到就气得自杀了，我没说错吧？
21 赞2017/11/9
He wanted to play Minecraft
他是想玩《我的世界》（Minecraft）。
29 赞2017/11/9
That's on a need to know basis
这事儿只有知情权范围内的人才知道。
45 赞2017/11/9
I remember the first time I watched Downfall; when Goebbels walked on I got a chill because it looked exactly like him.
我还记得第一次看《帝国的毁灭》的时候；戈培尔出场时我浑身一激灵，因为他长得简直跟本人一模一样。
276 赞2017/11/8
Motherfucker looks like he belongs in that one scary story book where each person has bigger and bigger teeth. (If anyone has any clue what I’m talking about)
这狗日的长得就跟那种恐怖故事书里出来的一样，书里每个人长着比上一个更大更离谱的牙齿。（有人知道我在说什么吗）
184 赞2017/11/9
Oh, thanks... [apparently I had managed to block that from my mind until you just reminded me.](
)
)哦，谢了……（本来我都成功把这破事儿从脑子里删除了，结果你刚才又给我提了个醒。）
21 赞2017/11/9
TIL there's a line between creepy and hilariously impractical.
今天才长见识了，原来“令人毛骨悚然”和“滑稽得不切实际”之间还有一条界线。
27 赞2017/11/9
Wait, they made a kid's book about online "defenders of Western Civilization"? Author nailed the title.
等等，他们居然出了一本关于“西方文明捍卫者”网军的童书？
作者这书名起得真是绝了。
46 赞2017/11/9
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68 赞2017/11/9
wow this is actually textbook scary villain
哇，这简直就是教科书级别的反派，太吓人了。
48 赞2017/11/9
I'm guessing many villains after WWII were modelled on Nazis
我猜二战后的很多反派都是以纳粹为原型设计的。
15 赞2017/11/9
They were pretty villainous.
他们确实够邪恶的。
27 赞2017/11/9
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24 赞2017/11/8
Somehow he looks even more sinister here.
不知道为什么，他在照片里看起来比平时更阴森了。
15 赞2017/11/9
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167 赞2017/11/9
This is arguably the most creepy thing about this photo. He was loving the attention and conversation until the exact moment when he finds out the photographer is Jewish. Then it’s pure hate.
这张照片最毛骨悚然的地方可能就在这儿了。前一秒他还挺享受被关注、挺乐意跟人搭话的，直到他发现摄影师是犹太人的那一刻——眼神瞬间就变了，全是纯粹的恨意。
55 赞2017/11/9
Yea, He could have been preventing a shart
也是，他那表情也可能是在努力憋个屁，怕拉裤兜里。
303 赞2017/11/9
Simply not true at all. You are reading into the photo what you want to see, not what's there. You have no idea, and no evidence, of what Goebbels was laughing about (maybe killing Jews but maybe a joke about Adolf Hitler, for all you know). And you have no idea why he is glaring in the more famous photo. This ability people have to "know" what is inside someone's head when they simply don't know is nonsense. "Until the exact moment" is you making up the facts. You do not know that Goebbels expression changed at the exact moment he saw the photographer. As far as you know it could have been many minutes later -- and for other reasons. Stop making up facts.
简直是胡扯。你完全是在照镜子——从照片里看到了你想看到的，而不是照片里真实呈现的内容。你根本不知道，也没有证据表明戈培尔当时在笑什么（说不定是在屠杀犹太人，但也说不定只是讲了个关于阿道夫·希特勒的笑话，谁知道呢）。还有，在那张更出名的照片里他为什么怒目而视，你也不知道。有些人总觉得自己能“看穿”别人的内心，哪怕他们对此一无所知，这简直荒谬至极。“直到那一刻”纯粹是你自己编造的事实。你根本无法证实戈培尔的表情是在看到摄影师的“那一刻”才改变的。说不定那是几分钟后的事了呢——而且是因为别的原因。别再瞎编乱造事实了。
92 赞2017/11/9
Here's a source for those interested: http://time.com/3880669/goebbels-in-geneva-1933-behind-a-classic-alfred-eisenstaedt-photo/ Edit: I'm not commenting on the previous comment. Just providing a source for people to look into it.
给感兴趣的人提供个链接：http://time.com/3880669/goebbels-in-geneva-1933-behind-a-classic-alfred-eisenstaedt-photo/ 编辑：我不是在针对楼上的评论。只是提供个资料供大家参考。
152 赞2017/11/9
> Not in dispute is that Joseph Goebbels and his wife Magda ordered the murder of their own children—**Helga, 12, Hildegard, 11, Helmut, 9, Holdine, 8, Hedwig, 6 and Heidrun, 4 years old**, all given names starting with H in honor of Hitler—with morphine and then cyanide, after which they themselves committed suicide. That's so sad. The kids were innocent and the brainwashed idiots killed them off because *they* couldn't envision a future.
> 毋庸置疑的是，约瑟夫·戈培尔和他的妻子玛格达下令杀害了自己的亲生骨肉——**赫尔加（12岁）、希尔德加德（11岁）、赫尔穆特（9岁）、霍尔迪内（8岁）、海德薇（6岁）和海德伦（4岁）**，这些孩子名字的首字母都以H开头，以此向希特勒致敬——他们先是给孩子们注射吗啡，随后又使用了氰化物，此后他们夫妇二人便自杀了。
太让人难过了。孩子们是无辜的，结果被那帮脑子进水的蠢货给害死了，就因为*他们*自己对未来失去了想象力。
72 赞2017/11/9
Makes me wonder about how cult like the top leaders were. Killing off yourself and your children as the circle tightens sounds similar to what the leaders in Jonestown did.
这不禁让我琢磨，那些高层领导到底有多像邪教头目。在包围圈不断缩小的时候，选择自我了断并杀害自己的孩子，听起来跟琼斯镇（Jonestown）那帮头子干的事儿如出一辙。
51 赞2017/11/9
I think there's also the fact that there was a good possibility that either the Soviets or the Allies would have done horrible things to them, and they wanted to avoid those horrible things which may well have ended in death anyways.
我觉得还有个事实是，苏联人或者盟军很有可能会对他们做出极其残忍的暴行，而他们一心想逃避那些暴行——尽管到头来可能还是难逃一死。
48 赞2017/11/9
Not defending them, but they might have had a horrible life if the Russians got them.
我不是在给他们洗地，但要是真落到俄国人手里，他们往后的日子估计会生不如死。
70 赞2017/11/9
>He was looking at someone to my left. . . . Suddenly he spotted me and I snapped him. His expression changed. Here are the eyes of hate. Was I an enemy? There is nothing in his book about Goebbels "finding out the photographer was Jewish" specifically - you can see modern celebrity photos taken by paparazzi with the same look. Just as likely he was caught off guard, and wasn't happy about having a picture taken without his consent, or being ready. I've wondered about this alleged story, and how someone would "find out" that a photographer was Jewish. After reading the source, I'm fairly sure i was right - it's just a story.
>他当时正看着我左边的人……突然他发现了我，我就随手抓拍了他。他的表情变了。瞧瞧这满含恨意的眼神。难道我成了他的眼中钉？
他的书中并没有提到戈培尔“发现摄影师是犹太人”这档子具体的事儿——你看看现代狗仔拍的名人照，那种眼神如出一辙。更有可能的情况是，他当时没防备，对这种没经过他同意、也没做好准备就被拍照的行为感到不爽而已。我一直怀疑这个所谓的“故事”，毕竟有人是怎么“发现”摄影师是犹太人的？在读过原始出处后，我挺确信自己没猜错——这纯粹就是个杜撰出来的故事。
17 赞2017/11/9
Whenever this picture comes up, with this description, I always imagine that the man beside Goebbels is holding a piece of paper that says, "Your photographer is a jew!"
每当这张照片连同这段描述出现时，我脑子里总会浮现出戈培尔旁边那人拿着一张纸条，上面写着：“你的摄影师是个犹太人！”的画面。
69 赞2017/11/9
Except for how the photographer described it as him laughing at someone else to get the smiling picture and then his visage turning to hate at the photographer. Thank below for the quote
可问题是，摄影师本人的描述是这样的：他先是拍到了戈培尔对着别人大笑的样子，然后戈培尔转头看到摄影师时，表情瞬间就变成了仇恨。感谢下面 提供的引文。
26 赞2017/11/9
The quote actually says that you are wrong. The photographer says that Goebbels didn't notice him when he took the first pictures. Seriously, it's just as likely that he was simply pissed that someone would take a picture without asking. It's bizarre how people just read nonsense into something just because someone on reddit wrote a shitty clickbait headline.
这段引文其实说的是你错了。摄影师本人说了，他在拍第一张照片时，戈培尔根本没注意到他。说真的，更有可能的情况是，戈培尔只是单纯因为有人没打招呼就偷拍他而感到恼火。最离谱的是，就因为Reddit上有人写了个烂得要死的标题党，大家就跟着瞎解读，真是绝了。
15 赞2017/11/9
> It's bizarre how people just read nonsense into something just because someone on reddit wrote a shitty clickbait headline. Not ironically, I bet Goebbels would find the concept a rather familiar one.
> 最离谱的是，就因为Reddit上有人写了个烂得要死的标题党，大家就跟着瞎解读，真是绝了。
讽刺的是，我敢打赌戈培尔本人对这种套路应该相当熟悉。
166 赞2017/11/9
Please research before you jump on someone. This is a well known picture. In fact from Times: "In the 1985 book, Eisenstaedt on Eisenstaedt: A Self-Portrait, the then-87-year-old photographer discussed how the Goebbels picture came about; In 1933, I traveled to Lausanne and Geneva for the fifteenth session of the League of Nations. There, sitting in the hotel garden, was Dr. Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s minister of propaganda. He smiles, but not at me. He was looking at someone to my left. . . . Suddenly he spotted me and I snapped him. His expression changed. Here are the eyes of hate. Was I an enemy? Behind him is his private secretary, Walter Naumann, with the goatee, and Hitler's interpreter, Dr. Paul Schmidt. . . . I have been asked how I felt photographing these men. Naturally, not so good, but when I have a camera in my hand I know no fear." Being so jumpy isn't a nice way to live one's life. Just saying. http://time.com/3880669/goebbels-in-geneva-1933-behind-a-classic-alfred-eisenstaedt-photo/
在你喷人之前，请先做做功课。这是一张很有名的照片。事实上，《时代》周刊是这么说的：
“在1985年出版的《爱森士塔特谈爱森士塔特：自画像》一书中，时年87岁的摄影师讲述了这张戈培尔照片的拍摄经过：
1933年，我前往洛桑和日内瓦报道第十五届国际联盟会议。当时，约瑟夫·戈培尔博士——希特勒的宣传部长——正坐在酒店花园里。他在笑，但不是对着我笑。他当时在看我左边的人……突然他发现了我，我立刻按下了快门。他的表情瞬间变了。这就是那种充满仇恨的眼神。我当时是他的敌人吗？他身后是他私人秘书沃尔特·瑙曼（留着山羊胡的那位）和希特勒的翻译保罗·施密特博士……有人问我拍摄这几个人时是什么感觉。当然，感觉不太好，但只要手里拿着相机，我就什么都不怕了。”
成天这么急赤白脸的，活得也太累了。我只是随口一说。
http://time.com/3880669/goebbels-in-geneva-1933-behind-a-classic-alfred-eisenstaedt-photo/
1,203 赞2017/11/8
Eisenstaedt also took the World War II victory [photo](
) of the sailor and nurse embracing in Times Square, which gives this story a nice symmetry, I think
) of the sailor and nurse embracing in Times Square, which gives this story a nice symmetry, I think艾森士塔特还拍过那张二战胜利时的[照片]()，就是时代广场上水兵拥吻护士那张，我觉得这让这个故事显得挺有对称感的。
)，就是时代广场上水兵拥吻护士那张，我觉得这让这个故事显得挺有对称感的。181 赞2017/11/9
Wow I didn’t know that. Thank you.
哇，这个我还真不知道。谢啦。
323 赞2017/11/9
Didn't the sailor not know that woman and just grab her and she said she feels super weird about it all being super famous and used as an image of celebration ? If I'm wrong I'm open to it I just don't even know how I'd look that up and I vaguely recall that.
那水兵当时不是根本不认识那女的，直接就上去抱住人家了吗？而且她好像说过，这件事变得这么出名还被拿来当作庆祝胜利的象征，让她觉得超级别扭？如果是我记错了那也无所谓，反正我也没头绪去哪查证，我只是隐约记得有这么回事。
301 赞2017/11/9
[Apparently the identities of the sailor and the nurse are disputed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square#Identity_of_the_Kissers): > In the October 1980 issue, the editors reported that eleven men and three women had come forward claiming to be the subjects of the photograph. But the strongest of the female claimants (Greta Zimmer Friedman) does say it wasn't her choice: > It wasn't my choice to be kissed [...] The guy just came over and grabbed! That man was very strong. I wasn't kissing him. He was kissing me.
[显然，照片中水兵和护士的身份一直存在争议](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square#Identity_of_the_Kissers)：
> 在1980年10月的那期杂志里，编辑们提到有十一名男子和三名女子站出来，声称自己就是照片里的当事人。
但其中最有力的女性主张者（格丽塔·齐默·弗里德曼）确实说过，那并非她的本意：
> 我可没想让他亲我……那家伙走过来一把就抓住了我！那男的劲儿特别大。我没在亲他，是他自己在亲我。
385 赞2017/11/9
so....she was sexually assaulted..
所以……她这是被性骚扰了啊……
227 赞2017/11/9
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42 赞2017/11/9
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43 赞2017/11/9
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21 赞2017/11/9
Yeah but it's ok because it was the 40s
是啊，但那可是40年代，所以就没事儿了呗。
42 赞2017/11/9
There were several pictures taken that day of the same nature. This is the most famous one from that day, but the others still exist. As far as I can remember he asked people to kiss each other, so it wasn't as spontaneous as it looks. Source: worked at Getty Images, whom own the images.
那天拍了好几张同类照片。这是当天最出名的一张，但其他的也都还在。我记得当时他让人们互相亲吻，所以并没有看起来那么随性。
来源：曾在盖蒂图片社（Getty Images）工作，版权归他们所有。
26 赞2017/11/9
That photo was actually taken *before* the victory announcement.
那张照片其实是胜利宣告*之前*拍的。
16 赞2017/11/9
Was the news not known before formal announcements?
难道在正式宣布之前大家还不知道消息吗？
22 赞2017/11/9
I don’t think so, no. How would they have heard? It was announced less that 24 hours after happening. (Fun fact: The Japanese surrendered on August 15th, but due to time zone differences, was announced to the American public on the morning of the 14th.)
我觉得不是，没可能。他们是怎么听说的？那件事发生后不到 24 小时就公布了。（冷知识：日本是在 8 月 15 日投降的，但因为时差关系，美国大众在 14 日早上就知道了。）
1,135 赞2017/11/8
The face of the man who murdered his five children before committing suicide. The face of unadulterated evil.
那个在自杀前杀害了自己五个孩子的男人的脸。这就是纯粹的恶。
896 赞2017/11/8
He believed he was protecting them. There were rumours that the allies were raping and pillaging. Not to defend the guy at all, but still.
他当时以为自己是在保护他们。那时有传言说盟军正在四处强奸和劫掠。我绝不是在为这家伙开脱，但事实就是这样。
165 赞2017/11/8
>He believed he was protecting them. There were rumours that the allies were raping and pillaging. Not to defend the guy at all, but still. Not just rumors, unfortunately. Every army in the war did that. In fact most armies in most wars have probably looted, raped and pillaged as long as humans have gone to war. As a descendent of a military family, this is something that we have to confront about warfare; it's often glossed over as something "their side" does, like the atrocities in Nanking. There are bad people in every country.
>他当时以为自己在保护他们。当时有传言说盟军在强奸和劫掠。我完全不是在帮那家伙洗白，但话又说回来。
可惜那不仅是传言。
战争中的每一支军队都干过这种事。事实上，只要人类还在打仗，大多数军队在大多数战争中可能都干过劫掠、强奸和烧杀抢掠这种勾当。
作为一个军人世家的后代，这是我们不得不正视的战争真相；人们经常会把这些罪行粉饰成“对方”才会做的事，比如南京大屠杀。每个国家都有坏人。
30 赞2017/11/9
> There are bad people in every country But that doesn't fit into my high school revisionist history text book of world war 2 that tidies up everything neatly and shows everything in black and white.
> 每个国家都有坏人
但这跟我的高中历史课本对不上啊，那些修订版教材把二战写得太干净了，把一切都归结为非黑即白。
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> There were rumours that the allies were raping and pillaging Well, they *were* raping and pillaging to some extent, especially the Soviets, just not nearly to the same extent as is/was standard for an invasion. Edit: to clarify I meant the Western allies (US/UK) didn’t rape/pillage as much, the Soviets went mental I know that much
> 当时有传言说盟军在强奸和劫掠
嗯，他们确实在一定程度上进行了强奸和劫掠，尤其是苏联红军，只不过没达到通常入侵行为的那种普遍程度罢了。
编辑：澄清一下，我是说西方盟军（美/英）没那么频繁地强奸/劫掠，苏联那边可是疯得厉害，这点我是知道的。
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I've heard the opposite, that the Soviets were absolutely horrific in their treatment of the Germans, as payback for the start of the war. German soldiers fled West to desperately avoid falling into Soviet hands, because only a minority of Soviet POWs survived.
我听到的恰恰相反，苏联人对德国人的手段简直残暴至极，算是对战争挑起方的报复。德国士兵拼了命地往西逃，就是为了不落入苏联人手里，毕竟苏联战俘里能活下来的可是少数。
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There was undeniably rape, torture and slaughter but at the same time there were Soviet Officers who executed soldiers that committed such crimes.
不可否认，强奸、虐待和屠杀确实存在，但与此同时，也有苏联军官直接处决了犯下这些罪行的士兵。
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From what I know NKVD primarily focused on deserters and political/morale offenders. I really doubt that Russian would earn they reputation in 1945 if they were indeed executing own people for raping and torturing.
据我所知，内务人民委员部（NKVD）主要盯着逃兵和那些在政治/士气上出问题的人。如果他们真会因为士兵强奸和虐待平民而处决自己人，那我还真怀疑俄罗斯人能在1945年搞出那种名声来。
29 赞2017/11/9
>I really doubt that Russian would earn they reputation in 1945 if they were indeed executing own people for raping and torturing. You know that right after WWII, the Cold War started, a period full of propaganda. Remember how the Soviets also ate babies according to that propaganda? I wouldn't expect another kind of portrayal from western media during that time, to be honest. At the same time, the Nazi regime and some of its figures (such as Rommel) were treated in the West as not actually so evil, to help with the "denazification" of the Western German state.
说实话，我真怀疑要是俄国人当时真会因为强奸和虐待就把自己人给毙了，他们还能在1945年博出那种名声吗？
你要知道二战一结束，冷战就开始了，那段时期到处都是宣传攻势。还记得当时宣传里说苏联人连婴儿都吃吗？讲真，我可不指望当时西方媒体会对他们有什么别的评价。与此同时，纳粹政权及其一些头目（比如隆美尔）在西方却被塑造成“没那么邪恶”的形象，这都是为了方便西德搞所谓的“去纳粹化”。
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The Soviets had a nearly 60% chance of death in captivity, the Germans 35% in Soviet captivity. Not really a minority; the Soviets who made it home were, however.
苏联战俘在关押期间的死亡率接近60%，而德国人在苏联关押期间的死亡率是35%。这比例可不算什么“少数”；反倒是那些能活着回家的苏联人才真是少数。
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The 6th army prisoners taken after Stalingrad had a 90% fatality rate. Some Germans were held as late as 1955 in forced labor camps
斯大林格勒战役后被俘的第6集团军成员死亡率高达90%。直到1955年，还有一些德国人被关在强迫劳动营里没能回来。
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Uh they did it as much if not more than a standard invasion when they took Berlin. Stalin allowed his soldiers 3 days of immunity from their military conduct laws in which most of the Soviet troops were allowed to steal, rape, assault, and murder at their discretion without repercussions. It was their "reward" for taking Berlin.
呃，他们在攻占柏林时的所作所为，跟一场正儿八经的入侵比起来，有过之而无不及。斯大林当时给了手下士兵三天的“豁免期”，让他们不用遵守军事纪律，于是大多数苏联士兵在那期间可以随意抢劫、强奸、殴打和杀人，完全不用承担后果。这就是他们攻占柏林的“奖赏”。
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It was also their payback for Stalingrad and the failed Nazi invasion of Russia. It wasn't so much a reward as it was a tenfold revenge upon Hitler.
这同时也是他们对斯大林格勒战役以及纳粹入侵俄国失败的一种报复。与其说是奖赏，不如说是对希特勒十倍奉还的复仇。
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Do you have a source for this?
你有这方面的资料来源吗？
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Only sources that exist for that particular bit of information is the accounts of Soviet soldiers in interviews. There's no officially and citeable source that exists for any real information regarding what happened during the occupation of Berlin. Most Russian historians will still deny that much of any crimes ever occurred even though it's widely accepted that the Soviets were responsible for suspected millions of rapes during that time. There's only tangential evidence in released secret police files that can actually agree to these accusations.
关于那段特定历史，唯一的来源就是苏联老兵在采访里的口述。对于柏林被占领期间到底发生了什么，根本没有官方且可引用的资料。大多数俄罗斯历史学家至今仍否认发生过大规模罪行，尽管现在公认苏联在那段时期应对数百万起强奸案负责。现有的解密秘密警察档案里，也只有一些旁证能印证这些指控。
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Well, the Soviets were raping and pillaging their way through eastern Germany, and it was they who were knocking on Berlin's gates at the time. That being said the kids probably wouldn't have been killed. Himmler, Goring and Bormann's kids survived the war and did alright. They were captured by the Brits and Americans though. Not sure what the Soviets did with the children of any high ranking Nazis they managed to take alive. Doesn't change the fact that he was an evil son of a bitch. If he'd really wanted to protect his family he could have done it a long, long time before they ended up in that bunker.
嗯，当时苏联人一路打进东德，烧杀抢掠无恶不作，而且正是他们当时在柏林城外叩关。
话虽如此，孩子们大概率是不会被杀的。希姆莱、戈林和鲍曼的孩子战后都活了下来，过得还行。不过他们是被英美联军俘虏的。至于苏联人怎么处理那些被俘的高层纳粹子女，我就不清楚了。
但这改变不了他是个邪恶的狗杂种这一事实。如果他真想保护家人，他早在大伙儿全窝在那个地堡里之前，就有大把的机会做到了。
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It was his wife, Magda, and one of Hitlers doctors, Stumpfegger, IIRC, that actually did that horrific deed.
如果我没记错的话，是他的妻子玛格达，还有希特勒的一个医生斯通普菲格，亲手干的那件丧尽天良的事儿。
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Yep. [Picture of him, his wife and their kids, dead](
). Both parents were set on fire by the SS after they killed themselves.
). Both parents were set on fire by the SS after they killed themselves.没错。（[他、他妻子还有孩子们死去的照片]()）。在他俩自杀后，遗体都被党卫队放火烧了。
)）。在他俩自杀后，遗体都被党卫队放火烧了。105 赞2017/11/9
the line between good and evil lies across every human's heart. i bet he was a lot more normal than we think. a sociopath maybe, but not nearly as the cartoonish mustache twirler as pop culture would have you believe. which is pretty scary. hannah arendt spoke of the banality of evil, this is it right there. just a guy who was irritated by being suddenly photographed.
善与恶的界限贯穿于每个人的内心。我敢打赌他比我们想象中要正常得多。也许是个反社会人格，但绝对不像流行文化里描绘的那种只会捻胡子、脸谱化的反派。而这恰恰是最可怕的。
汉娜·阿伦特曾提过“平庸之恶”，这就是最好的写照。不过就是个因为突然被抓拍而感到不爽的家伙罢了。
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"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" - Solzhenitsyn Very good chapter on the nature of 'evildoers' in Gulag Archipelago. Quite interesting his take on it all.
“如果真有那么一些邪恶的人在阴险地干着坏事，只要把他们和我们其他人分离开来并消灭掉就行了。然而，分割善与恶的界限却穿过了每个人的内心。又有谁愿意去摧毁自己内心的一部分呢？”——索尔仁尼琴
《古拉格群岛》里关于“作恶者”本质的那一章写得极好。他对这一切的看法相当耐人寻味。
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woah woah let's not let his wife off easy on this one!
哇，等等，这件事可不能轻易放过他老婆！
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I worked a few floors up from Eisenstaedt from 1990 till he passed away. I shook hands with him in the elevator. He was tiny by this time, and the last time I saw him, he was in a wheelchair. Chilling that I shook hands with the man who photographed Goebbles, Hitler and Mousilini.
从1990年到他去世，我一直在艾森斯塔特（Eisenstaedt）工作的楼层上方几层办公。我在电梯里和他握过手。那时候他已经很瘦小了，我最后一次见到他时，他坐在轮椅上。
想到我竟然和那位拍摄过戈培尔、希特勒和墨索里尼的人握过手，真让人后背发凉。
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At least he was the good guy!
好在他是个好人！
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I might have expressed that wrong. Chilling, to me, because of how small the world is within the reach of the timeline. In my life, I’ve shaken the hands of LBJ, RFK, Jack Dempsey, James Baldwin, and dozens of others. The daughter of Malcolm X worked for me as a temp for a few weeks. I’ve met the granddaughter of Paul Robeson. These people were, or had ties to greatness and history.
我刚才可能表达得不太对。之所以觉得细思极恐，是因为在时间线所及的范围内，这世界小得令人发指。
在我这辈子，我跟林登·约翰逊（LBJ）、罗伯特·肯尼迪（RFK）、杰克·邓普西、詹姆斯·鲍德温还有其他好几十号大人物都握过手。马尔科姆·X 的女儿还给我当过几周的临时工。我还见过保罗·罗伯逊的孙女。这些人要么本身就是历史和伟大的代名词，要么跟这些有着千丝万缕的联系。
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Jesus......... that is a chilling look right there!
天哪……那一眼看得真让人背脊发凉！
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Honestly, he looks like an angry child who was just told he can’t have a sugary snack but can choose from two healthier options
说实话，他看起来就像个正在闹脾气的熊孩子，刚才被告知不能吃甜食，只能从两样更健康的选择里挑一个。
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I'm Jewish and this sent a chill down my spine. That man would have killed me without a second thought, and there are still people like him out there today.
我是犹太人，看到这个真是背脊发凉。那个男人当时肯定会毫不犹豫地杀了我，而且直到今天，像他那种人依然存在。
15 赞2017/11/9
Still trying to milk that cow, eh?
还在这儿想方设法压榨剩余价值呢，啊？
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Post title is some made up non sense with no historical fact.He was surprised by someone who just snapped his pic. He didn't find out nothing about the photographer. This is from the guy who took the pic: >In the 1985 book, Eisenstaedt on Eisenstaedt: A Self-Portrait, the then-87-year-old photographer discussed how the Goebbels picture came about: > In 1933, I traveled to Lausanne and Geneva for the fifteenth session of the League of Nations. There, sitting in the hotel garden, was Dr. Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s minister of propaganda. He smiles, but not at me. He was looking at someone to my left. . . . Suddenly he spotted me and I snapped him. His expression changed. Here are the eyes of hate. Was I an enemy? Behind him is his private secretary, Walter Naumann, with the goatee, and Hitler's interpreter, Dr. Paul Schmidt. . . . I have been asked how I felt photographing these men. Naturally, not so good, but when I have a camera in my hand I know no fear. >At another point, Eisenstaedt noted that "this picture could be titled, 'From Goebbels With Love.' When I went up to him in the garden of the hotel, he looked at me with hateful eyes and waited for me to wither. But I didn't wither."
[source](http://time.com/3880669/goebbels-in-geneva-1933-behind-a-classic-alfred-eisenstaedt-photo/#1)
帖子的标题就是纯粹瞎编的胡话，一点历史事实都没有。他当时只是被一个突然拍他照的人给惊到了而已。他根本没查出摄影师的任何底细。这段话来自那个拍照的人：
> 在1985年出版的《艾森士塔特论艾森士塔特：自画像》一书中，时年87岁的摄影师讲述了这张戈培尔照片的由来：
> 1933年，我前往洛桑和日内瓦参加国际联盟的第十五次会议。当时戈培尔博士，也就是希特勒的宣传部长，正坐在酒店花园里。他在笑，但不是对着我笑。他当时在看我左边的人……突然他发现了我，我顺手就拍下了他。他的表情变了。那眼神里充满了仇恨。我是敌人吗？他身后是他的私人秘书沃尔特·瑙曼（留着山羊胡的那位），还有希特勒的翻译保罗·施密特博士……有人问我拍这些人的时候是什么感觉。当然，感觉不怎么样，但只要相机一拿在手里，我就什么都不怕了。
> 在另一处，艾森士塔特曾提到：“这张照片可以命名为《来自戈培尔的爱》。当我在酒店花园走近他时，他用充满恨意的眼神盯着我，等着我知难而退。但我没怂。”
[来源](http://time.com/3880669/goebbels-in-geneva-1933-behind-a-classic-alfred-eisenstaedt-photo/#1)
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> Suddenly he spotted me and I snapped him. His expression changed. Here are the eyes of hate. Was I an enemy? This just supports the premise of him finding out his photographer was Jewish and then changing his demeanour as false. He was slightly glaring at a photographer. Not angry because he found out the photographer was a Jew.
> 他突然发现了我，我就拍下了他。他的表情变了。那就是充满仇恨的眼神。我是他的敌人吗？
这不过是证明了“他发现摄影师是犹太人后改变了态度”这一前提是虚假的。
他当时只是稍微瞪了一眼摄影师。并不是因为发现摄影师是犹太人而生气。
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An Aryan should be blonde like Hitler, tall like Goebbels and athletic like Goering.
一个雅利安人应该像希特勒一样金发，像戈培尔一样高挑，像戈林一样健壮。
52 赞2017/11/9
It's amazing how many of the comments in this thread just assume that the claim about Goebbels glaring at a Jew, rather than at a photographer, are true. They don't even question it. In fact, nearly every comment I've ever read about this photograph tries to make every possible effort to prove that Goebbels was glaring at the photographer "because he was Jewish". But not a single one of these efforts has ever proved that. How would Goebbels, who clearly is just looking up at the photographer, immediately know that the photographer was a Jew? The other two men aren't even looking at the photographer which pretty strongly suggests (I'm tempted to say "proves") that this moment was quite sudden and that no preparation of any kind had preceded it. That means that no one said, "Dr. Goebbels, this is the Jewish photographer Eisenstadt." Others claim that Goebbels recognized him visually "as Jewish". Really? How in the world do you do that? Do you know any Jews? Are they visually recognizable as Jews? The idea is truly silly. It seems far more likely that Goebbels was irritated that some photographer was sticking his camera in his face. And since Goebbels has a somewhat angry face, he looks angry. But who could sell a photo of that? Better make up a story that Goebbels was glaring at the photographer "because he was Jewish." I imagine that's what Life Magazine's editors did in order to make the photo more iconic, more scary. I've never believed this claim, and I still don't believe it. Even the photographer is ambiguous about what is happening: "Suddenly he spotted me and I snapped him. His expression changed. Here are the eyes of hate." That could be read as Goebbels glaring at a Jew, but isn't it far more likely it's just Goebbels glaring at "some" photographer who was interfering with his privacy as he consulted with this aides. The "eyes of hate" is poetic, based on general knowledge of the type of man Goebbels was. It does not prove anything about what was in Goebbels mind at that moment. This is always a problem in history because you usually don't know what's in someone's mind. You may think you do, but you do't. Isn't it far more likely Goebbels just "hated" being interrupted? But why say that when you can make up a much bigger claim about "the eyes of hate" because a Jew was trying to take his picture? It's the far more likely probability we should always go with, not the made up story. History is filled with this sort of thing -- stories just made up by someone which come to be widely believed. But we don't vote on what's true. History isn't a popularity contest. Facts have to be shown to be true. Where is some actual evidence of this claim that Goebbels resented being confronted by a Jew and not just some photographer who was sticking a lens in his face?
这个帖子里有那么多人想当然地认为“戈培尔是瞪着一个犹太人，而不是在瞪摄影师”这一说法是真的，真是绝了。他们甚至连质疑都不质疑一下。事实上，我读过的关于这张照片的评论里，几乎每一条都在竭尽全力证明戈培尔瞪摄影师是“因为他是个犹太人”。但这些论证中，没有一条真正证明了这一点。
戈培尔明明只是抬头看了一眼摄影师，他又是怎么一眼就看出摄影师是犹太人的？另外两个人甚至都没看摄影师，这很有力地暗示（我甚至想说“证明”）了这一瞬间非常突然，事前根本没有任何准备。这意味着没人说过：“戈培尔博士，这位是犹太摄影师艾森斯塔特。”还有人声称戈培尔是凭视觉“认出”他是犹太人的。真的吗？你到底是怎么做到的？你认识犹太人吗？他们真的从外表上一眼就能认出来是犹太人吗？这种想法简直蠢透了。
更有可能的是，戈培尔只是因为有摄影师把镜头怼到他脸上而感到烦躁。况且戈培尔本来就长着一张苦大仇深的脸，他看起来生气再正常不过了。但这种照片怎么卖得出去？最好还是编个故事，说戈培尔瞪摄影师是“因为他是个犹太人”。我猜这就是《生活》杂志的编辑们为了让这张照片更具标志性、更吓人而干的好事。我从来都不信这个说法，现在也不信。
就连摄影师本人对当时发生的事说法也模棱两可：“他突然发现了我，我就拍下了他。他的表情变了。那就是充满仇恨的眼神。”这段话可以被解读为戈培尔在瞪一个犹太人，但难道不是更有可能他只是在瞪一个“随便什么”妨碍他与随从交谈、侵犯他隐私的摄影师吗？“充满仇恨的眼神”这说法很诗意，是基于大家对戈培尔是个什么样的人的普遍认知。它根本证明不了戈培尔当时心里在想什么。这在历史研究中一直是个难题，因为你通常无法得知别人的内心想法。你可能以为你知道，但其实你根本不知道。难道戈培尔只是“讨厌”被打扰，这种可能性不是更大吗？但明明有这种可能，为什么非要编出一个因为“有个犹太人在拍他”所以才有了“仇恨眼神”这种更大的噱头呢？我们应该始终倾向于概率更高的情况，而不是这些编出来的故事。
历史充斥着这类东西——全是某人编造出来却被广泛相信的故事。但真相不是靠投票决定的。历史不是人气竞赛。事实必须有凭有据。既然如此，有什么实质证据能证明戈培尔当时是因为反感被一个犹太人冒犯，而不是反感被一个把镜头怼到他脸上的摄影师冒犯的吗？
18 赞2017/11/9
Yes, and apparently he was taking photos of him for quite a long time until he caught this expression which looked evil to him. I'm not saying Goebbels was a lovely guy, but maybe it's possible he was getting annoyed with this photographer shooting him a thousand times? Also, this is kinda akin to paparazzi photos of celebs, and I think celebrities are prone to making dissatisfied faces when being creeped on by photographers too.
对，而且显然这摄影师对着他拍了很久，直到抓拍到了这张在他眼里显得“邪恶”的表情。我不是说戈培尔是个好人，但有没有可能他只是被这个对他狂拍一千遍的摄影师给搞烦了呢？再说了，这有点像狗仔拍明星，我觉得明星被这种跟踪狂似的摄影师偷拍时，也容易摆出那种不爽的表情。
45 赞2017/11/9
He reminds me of Death from Supernatural.
他让我想起了《邪恶力量》里的死亡。
44 赞2017/11/8
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110 赞2017/11/8
There was a session of the League of Nations, the predecessor of the UN. This was eight months after the Nazis had risen to power in Germany.
当时正值国际联盟（联合国的鼻祖）开会。那是在纳粹在德国掌权八个月之后发生的事。
40 赞2017/11/8
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17 赞2017/11/8
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30 赞2017/11/8
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29 赞2017/11/9
Is that Sebastian Gorka behind Goebbels?
戈培尔身后那个人是塞巴斯蒂安·戈尔卡（Sebastian Gorka）吗？
29 赞2017/11/9
This is a typical lied story. The adjutant of Goebbels interrupted him while the men on Goebbels side talked to him, therefore this eyes.
这纯粹是胡扯。当时戈培尔的副官打断了他，而站在他身边的人正在跟他说话，所以他才那个表情。
25 赞2017/11/9
I remember reading somewhere that Goebbels indeed knew the photographer was Jewish and that he was scowling because he was constantly getting interrupted.
我记得在哪儿读到过，戈培尔确实知道摄影师是犹太人，而且他当时在那儿黑脸是因为一直在被人打断。
11 赞2017/11/9
I can't find the pictures myself, but the 'before' shots of him gives this picture even more power. He was all smiles and politeness until he learned that he was a Jew.
我自己找不到那些照片了，但拍他之前的那些“事后”照片让这张图看起来更有冲击力。他本来一脸笑容，礼貌得很，直到他发现对方是个犹太人。
11 赞2017/11/9
Is that a true story with the Jewish photographer or just made up? Just to be clear, I am aware of the fact that he was a genocidal maniac and I’m not denying that, it’s just that “anecdotes” like this tend to be made up. Any credible sources?
关于那个犹太摄影师的故事是真的，还是编的啊？先声明一下，我很清楚他是个种族灭绝的疯子，我没在洗地，只是这种“轶事”通常都挺扯的。有靠谱的来源吗？
9 赞2017/11/9
Thinking about the death camps it's very disturbing that this happened so recently. Not 800 years ago. People are still alive from this. With the touchy feely world we live in its strange to think of a first world society where thousands were complicit in murdering families by the trainload.
一想到死亡集中营，就觉得这事儿发生得这么近，真的让人挺不安的。那可不是800年前的事。还有人亲历过那段历史呢。在这个凡事讲究“走心”、敏感脆弱的现代社会，很难想象在一个所谓的文明世界里，成千上万的人竟然会合伙把一火车载一火车的人送去屠杀。
9 赞2017/11/9
Really doesn't look like hate or anger but just annoyed. Maybe the guy trying to give him the paper is just interrupting the photo. I wonder if there is a story behind this.
看起来真不像是在仇恨或者愤怒，倒更像是觉得烦。可能那个想给他递传单的家伙只是打断了拍照而已。我很好奇这背后是不是有什么故事。
4 赞2017/11/9
What's the source on the story behind the photo? I mean honestly it looks like he could have just been glancing up at the camera not knowing a photo was being taken and then the story was just put into context afterwards.
这张照片背后的故事出处是哪儿？说实话，我觉得他可能只是刚好抬头看了一眼镜头，根本不知道有人在拍照，然后事后才被人强行编排出了个故事。
3 赞2017/11/9
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