1945年5月8日大屠杀：一日之内四万五千人遇难——一道永难愈合的伤疤
1945年5月8日，第二次世界大战结束后，阿尔及利亚人民举行和平示威，争取独立自由。 然而，法国殖民者却施以残暴镇压：实弹射击、空中轰炸，并大规模逮捕民众。 结果在短短一天内，便造成了45,000名烈士牺牲。 这些大屠杀彻底粉碎了和平解决的希望，并于1954年点燃了阿尔及利亚独立战争的战火。 #反对
评论 (43)
CharmingArmin853 赞2025/8/2
Also known as Sétif and Guelma massacre. It’s crazy to me that this is not more known considering how absolutely insane this was and occurred just a couple of months prior to the ending of ww2 in Europe. This later evolved into the Algerian war of independence that happened a few years later.
也被称为塞提夫和盖尔马大屠杀。
这事儿居然没多少人知道，简直让我惊掉下巴，毕竟这事儿当时闹得有多离谱，而且发生的节点还是在二战欧洲战场结束前几个月。
这件事后来演变成了几年后的阿尔及利亚独立战争。
shadowlurker6996320 赞2025/8/2
Unsurprising it’s not well known. It’s been purposely written out of the history books.
没几个人知道也不奇怪，这事儿摆明了就是被刻意从历史书里抹掉了。
aziz_samy1979238 赞2025/8/2
Exactly, and that’s what makes it even more tragic — entire generations grow up not knowing what really happened. Silencing history only ensures the same mistakes are repeated.
可不嘛，最悲剧的地方就在这儿——一代又一代人长大，却根本不知道真相是什么。掩盖历史只会让同样的错误反复上演。
Coinsworthy112 赞2025/8/2
The death toll is quite controversial, with french official numbers coming in very low (\~1000) and contemporary algerian nationalist sources putting the number on \~45.000. Scholarly consensus puts the deathtoll between 3000 to 6000 over a few weeks. Still no numbers to scoff about, the french intervention was brutal. I assume it's a lesser known massacre due to a) it happening in the smoke of the end of ww2 (with lots of things happening, many people dying everywhere) b) forgotten/overlooked by the cinematic world (i can only think of maybe one or two movies about the algerian war or ww2-algeria in general and i've seen most of the movies in the "war and history" category), and c) under-researched and politicized subject.
死亡人数争议挺大的。法国官方给的数据低得离谱（约1000人），而阿尔及利亚当代的民族主义者认为有4.5万人左右。学术界的共识是几周内死亡人数在3000到6000之间。不管怎么说，这数字依然触目惊心，法国当年的镇压简直残暴。
magic_consciousness17 赞2025/8/2
In my opinion it is no coincidence that it was „overlooked“, all the atrocities (already during the war, but until today) of world war II „winner“ nations are purposely „overlooked“ or get not that „much“ attention. It is the same with wars of these countries. Korea, Vietnam (which was originally also a French war because Vietnam was basically held as a sort of slavery country of France) the whole Arabic states which where bombed down without international law legitimation. I think it is time for the world to speak that out loud in order to end this. There is no reason that based on winning the second world war, they are allowed to break international law whenever it fits their interests and is somehow justified or overlooked. This is no real peace order in my view.
在我看来，它被“忽略”绝非巧合。二战“战胜国”的所有暴行（从战争期间一直到今天），都被刻意地“忽略”或避而不谈。它们参与的那些战争也一样。比如朝鲜战争、越南战争（起初其实也是法国的战争，因为越南本质上就是法国的奴隶制殖民地），还有那些被轰炸成废墟且未经国际法授权的阿拉伯国家。我觉得是时候让全世界大声讲出真相并终结这一切了。凭什么赢了二战，就能随意违反国际法，只要符合自身利益就觉得合理或理所当然地被无视？在我看来，这根本不是什么真正的和平秩序。
tubadude12318 赞2025/8/2
Yeah I just learned yesterday about the island in Scotland where Churchill had them develop an anthrax bio weapon. The anthrax island still in the soil after all these years.
对啊，我昨天才知道苏格兰有个岛，丘吉尔当年在那儿搞炭疽生物武器研发。这么多年过去了，那岛上的炭疽病毒还留在土里呢。
kitty_cakes12315 赞2025/8/2
I did my final project for my infectious disease class on anthrax! This experiment was huge. A couple of notes here 1) They actually bleached the entire island a while back to kill the spores to my knowledge, after the spores persisted for 40ish years 2) This wasn't for "development of a bioweapon"- the spores are already a bioweapon and don't need any development lol. The experiments were set up to determine by what routes of exposure anthrax could cause disease. They proved that anthrax was infectious via inhalation by testing sheep that had all but their face covered and were immobilized. Prior, they weren't sure if inhalation of spores was a route of exposure, although sheep were a common host for it through other routes of exposure (subcutaneous, ingestion). Inhalation was found to be the most deadly route of exposure, and is exactly how it *was* used as a bioweapon later in the 2001 attacks, yes. But saying they were developing a bioweapon doesn't give anthrax enough credit- there was no human intervention necessary to make it as deadly as it was other than making it airborne. Funny enough, the fact that it was in fact spread via air was very easy to prove and was arguably not the most significant finding. Basically all of the sheep died, proving it was the most infectious route of disease entry, and easily proving their hypothesis. However, the fact that the spores persisted as long as they did was a huge discovery in its own right, and arguably harder to prove without a natural environment to leave them in. The bleaching of the island terminated that experiment, so we dont actually know how long the spores are good for! At least that long though lol
我传染病课的期末作业就是关于炭疽杆菌的！这个实验意义重大。这里有几点说明：
1) 据我所知，他们很久以前真的把整个岛都喷了漂白粉，因为这些孢子在那里存活了大概40年，喷漂白粉是为了杀死它们。
2) 这事儿其实不是为了“研发生物武器”——这些孢子本身就是生物武器，根本不需要研发，哈哈。做这些实验是为了确定炭疽杆菌可以通过哪些途径导致感染。他们通过实验证明了炭疽杆菌可以通过吸入传播：实验中给羊戴上了面罩，只露出脸部并将其固定住。在此之前，人们并不确定吸入孢子是否是一种感染途径，尽管羊通过其他途径（皮下注射、摄入）感染炭疽是很常见的。实验发现吸入是致命性最高的感染途径，这确实也就是后来2001年炭疽袭击中被用到的方式。但如果说他们在研发生物武器，那简直是低估了炭疽杆菌——除了把它变成气溶胶（空气传播）之外，人类根本不需要进行任何干预，它本身就够致命了。
说来滑稽，它确实能通过空气传播这一点非常容易证明，甚至可以说这算不上什么重大发现。基本上所有的羊都死了，这直接证明了这是传染性最强的感染途径，也轻易地验证了他们的假设。然而，孢子能存活那么久反倒是一个巨大的科学发现，而且如果不在一个天然环境里放着，这事儿还真不好证明。后来对岛屿的漂白清理工作强行终止了那个实验，所以我们到现在其实都不知道这些孢子到底能活多久！不过至少能活那么久吧，哈哈。
Greedy_Economics_92527 赞2025/8/2
I don't know about France, but at least in the UK we are making slow progress towards puncturing the myths we built up around our days of empire. It's a constant struggle against chauvinists and nostalgia.
法国那边我不好说，但在英国，我们至少在一点点打破过去帝国时期堆砌出来的那些神话。这需要时刻与那些沙文主义者和怀旧情绪作斗争。
Scalage8920 赞2025/8/2
We have the same shit here in The Netherlands with our colonial past. We were BAD after WW2 in Indonesia, on the same level as the French in Algeria. Nobody is taught this in schools. We barely even mention our past with slave trade. It's shameful.
我们荷兰也一样，对殖民历史也是烂摊子。二战后我们在印尼干的那些事儿简直烂透了，跟法国在阿尔及利亚的表现半斤八两。学校根本不教这些，我们对自己参与奴隶贸易的历史几乎也是只字不提。真丢人。
aziz_samy197940 赞2025/8/2
You're absolutely right. The Sétif and Guelma massacre of May 8, 1945 is one of the most shocking yet overlooked events of the 20th century. On the same day Europe celebrated freedom from Nazi tyranny, tens of thousands of Algerians were killed simply for demanding independence. This brutal repression planted the seeds for the Algerian War of Independence (1954–1962), a struggle that finally ended colonial rule.
你说得太对了。1945年5月8日的塞提夫和盖尔马大屠杀是20世纪最令人震惊却又最被忽视的事件之一。就在欧洲庆祝从纳粹暴政下解放的同一天，成千上万的阿尔及利亚人仅仅因为要求独立就被残忍杀害。这次野蛮的镇压埋下了阿尔及利亚独立战争（1954–1962）的种子，那场艰苦卓绝的斗争最终终结了殖民统治。
maimutaAfricana21 赞2025/8/2
The french we're under the terror of the nazis. They demanded that the westerners provide help for the freedom of their people. Such an injustice to the french people no country should endure. The french literally some months after liberation: let's massacre the ones that request freedom.
法国人当时正活在纳粹的恐怖统治下。他们要求西方人伸出援手，帮他们人民获得自由。这种对法国人民的不公，任何国家都无法忍受。
IDontEatDill20 赞2025/8/2
Also keep in mind that a lot of French also eagerly collaborated with Nazis and even helped to transport Jews into German hands - sometimes even more than Germans were prepared to take in. Some of these people remained in power even after WW2. It's amazing what listening to Behind The Bastard's does.
还有别忘了，很多法国人当初也积极充当纳粹走狗，甚至帮着把犹太人往德国人手里送——有些时候甚至比德国人要求的数量还多。这些人里有些在二战结束后居然还稳坐权力宝座。
238 赞2025/8/2
The death count is disputed. The fact a massacre took place isn't.
死亡人数是有争议，但发生了屠杀这一事实没争议。
79 赞2025/8/2
Exactly. Arguing over numbers shouldn’t distract from the undeniable fact that a massacre happened. The focus should be on why it happened and how such atrocities were justified at the time
确实。纠结数字不应该掩盖“发生过屠杀”这一无可辩驳的事实。重点应该放在这事儿为什么会发生，以及当时是怎么给这种暴行找借口的。
48 赞2025/8/2
It started with a relatively small incident in Sétif. Wikipedia says it wasn't clear who shot first, but that both protesters and police were shot. Then, over 100 settlers were lynched (murdered) with "agricultural tools, bladed weapons and hunting rifles". Then, colonial authorities took indiscriminate revenge. Most historians estimate 3000-5000 deaths, not 40,000+. The first sort of incident happens all the time, and will happen again in the future. But then 2 times, people decided to take revenge on innocents. That is absolutely not OK. No excuses for either side should ever count.
事情起因于塞提夫发生的一起相对较小的冲突。维基百科上说当时谁先开的枪并不清楚，但抗议者和警察双方都有人中弹。
随后，100多名定居者遭到私刑（谋杀），凶器是“农具、冷兵器和猎枪”。
紧接着，殖民当局展开了无差别的报复。大多数历史学家估计死亡人数在3000到5000人左右，而不是4万多。
第一种冲突类型在历史上时有发生，未来也还会发生。
但后来那两次，人们选择向无辜者复仇。这绝对是不可接受的。任何一方都不该找借口。
70 赞2025/8/2
Estimates range from 1,500 deaths to 45,000, the figure is more between 10,000 and 15,000, what must be remembered is the injustice and horror of this massacre, but taking the figures from one propaganda or another does not help
各种估算从1500人到4.5万人不等，比较靠谱的数字在1万到1.5万之间。我们要记住的是这场屠杀的不公和恐怖，拿各种宣传口径里的数字说事儿没啥意义。
62 赞2025/8/2
What’s with the hashtags
这一堆标签是搞什么鬼？
27 赞2025/8/2
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38 赞2025/8/2
I know. They think they’re on twitter or some shit.
我懂。他们以为自己是在推特还是什么烂地方呢。
50 赞2025/8/2
And this is after helping the french fight in france right?
而且这还是在帮法国人在法国本土打完仗之后发生的，对吧？
17 赞2025/8/2
More immediately, it occurred after over 100 French colonists were murdered by Algerians
更直接点说，这事儿发生在100多名法国殖民者被阿尔及利亚人杀害之后。
41 赞2025/8/2
The french, after WW2 went on a rampage. Collecting old colonies and brutally establishing power, as if they didn't owe their colonies for thier freedom. People give the british empire shit but the french empire was brutal.
二战后，法国人简直杀红了眼。疯狂重夺旧殖民地，手段极其残暴，仿佛忘了当初是靠这些殖民地才换回了自己的自由。
20 赞2025/8/2
Exactly. Was the British Empire guiltless? Of course not! Yet lately I fee people have been painting it as if it were Nazi Germany itself whilst the French really did commit some extremely heinous atrocities during the collapse of their empire.
说得对。大英帝国就没罪吗？当然不是！但最近我感觉人们把英国说得跟纳粹德国似的，而法国明明在帝国崩塌时犯下过极其恶劣的暴行。
18 赞2025/8/2
French, Belgian, Spanish, Portuguese and German empires were responsible for some of the most heinous massacres and genocidal policies known to man. The Spanish wiped out nearly all of South America and literally wiped out the Inca, the Germans decimated Africa and stole skulls as trophies, the Belgian empire amputated and killed children if their parents didn't fulfil plantation quotas, Portuguese forced Catholicism on to natives and killed them when they rejected it, and the French massacred the Algerians, the Vietnamese, Cambodians and many more. As you say, the British empire was not guiltless, drugging the Chinese, selling weapons to African tribes and using them to solve their land disputes, the Irish famine, and many more, but we always seem to be the ones blamed, even today. Everything is the British empire's fault and Europe are trying to fix it. No, we are all guilty but everyone else wipes their guilt under the carpet, where as we get taught, "Hey, we did some good stuff as an empire but some pretty bad shit too"
法国、比利时、西班牙、葡萄牙和德国帝国应对人类历史上一些最令人发指的大屠杀和种族灭绝政策负责。
西班牙人几乎抹平了整个南美，字面意义上消灭了印加文明；德国人在非洲大肆杀戮，还把头骨当作战利品；比利时帝国如果发现父母没能完成种植园的生产配额，就会切断并杀害他们的孩子；葡萄牙人强迫原住民改信天主教，拒绝者格杀勿论；法国人则屠杀了阿尔及利亚人、越南人、柬埔寨人等等。
正如你所说，大英帝国也不是清白的，给中国人喂鸦片、向非洲部落兜售武器并利用他们解决土地纠纷、爱尔兰大饥荒等等，罪行不胜枚举。但奇怪的是，不管什么时候被推出来背锅的总好像是我们，直到今天都是这样。什么事儿都赖大英帝国，好像全欧洲都在努力补救似的。不，我们都有罪，但其他人总是把罪恶扫进地毯底下，而我们从小受到的教育却是：“嘿，我们作为帝国确实做了一些好事，但也干过不少混账事。”
12 赞2025/8/2
It didn't actually happen in one day, it happened over two weeks, and the casualty rates are realistically between 6000 to 20000, with most historians agreeing on a 15000 casualty figure. It doesn't make it any better, but "45000" is the actual Algerian government's claim, which shows that this post and OP could be heavily biased. Algeria is ruled by a nationalist military junta that brutally suppresses anyone who talks against the regime. Activists Soheib Debbaghi and Mahdi Bazizi were sentenced to 18 months in prison in March 2025 for their involvement with the "#Manich Radi" movement criticizing Algeria's political and socioeconomic conditions. Poet and activist Mohamed Tadjadit was sentenced to five years in January 2025, primarily for social media posts related to political messages and the "#Manich Radi" campaign. Activist Belaid Charfi was sentenced to four years in prison in March 2025 for posting content denouncing detentions and social conditions. The list goes on. There is a strong possibility that OP is using the warcrimes committed by France to further the political agenda of the oppressive Algerian government.
这事儿根本不是一天之内发生的，而是持续了整整两周。按现实推算，伤亡人数大概在6000到20000之间，多数历史学家认可15000这个数字。这当然洗不白法国的罪行，但“45000”这个数是阿尔及利亚政府的一面之词，说明这篇帖子和楼主很可能带有严重的偏见。现在的阿尔及利亚是被军政府统治的民族主义国家，任何反对政权的声音都会遭到残酷镇压。
11 赞2025/8/2
Honestly it still amazes me that after 4 years of brutal Nazi occupation, the French *still* pulled shit like this. I mean I know racism and imperialism are a thing, but still, you would think a population and government that was just under a Nazi occupation would be at least a little more forgiving to their occupied peoples.
老实说，我至今都无法理解，法国人在经历了四年残酷的纳粹占领后，居然还能干出这种烂事。我是说，我知道种族主义和帝国主义是客观存在的，但你总会觉得，一个刚刚才从纳粹铁蹄下挺过来的民族和政府，至少会对被他们占领的人民宽容一点吧。
6 赞2025/8/2
no, it didn't happen in one day it was a series of massacres and burnings of villages that lasted a month and a half in the regions of Setif,Kherrata and Guelma.
不对，这根本不是一天之内发生的，而是在塞提夫、盖尔马和克拉塔地区持续了一个半月的一系列大屠杀和焚村惨案。
6 赞2025/8/2
I have never heard of this. Not even a little.
我从来没听说过这事。一点风声都没听过。
6 赞2025/8/3
It’s important to note the death toll is HEAVILY contested, ranging from 3k-45k
有一点很重要，死亡人数争议非常大，从3000到45000不等。
6 赞2025/8/2
45k in one day? algerian nationalist statistics lol
一天死45000人？阿尔及利亚民族主义者的统计数据真逗。
6 赞2025/8/2
I heard this actually happened after Algerians killed Europeans. They even cut of the hands of a cities mayor.
我听说这事儿其实是因为阿尔及利亚人先杀了欧洲人。他们甚至砍下了一个城市市长的手。
6 赞2025/8/2
It would seem that most historians place the number of dead at 6,000, not 45,000 which is the official number of the Algerian government with estimates ranging from 1,000 - 45,000. The massacre took place after over 100 French colonists were murdered by Algerians.
看来大多数历史学家都把死亡人数定在 6000 人左右，而不是阿尔及利亚政府官方宣称的 45000 人，目前的估算范围从 1000 到 45000 不等。
5 赞2025/8/2
Yeah no way the number is 45.000 makes absolutely zero sense to anyone with half a brain
没错，说 45000 人根本说不通，稍微长点脑子的人都不会信。
5 赞2025/8/3
This was a massacre but the number of people killed in a single day, sounds ridiculously stupid. This information arises in purpose to fool the online "history justice" warriors. Sounds like a hundred thousand killed in Gaza by Israel run by the Hamas propaganda department. Do you people understand the number : 45,000 people?
这确实是一场大屠杀，但说单日死亡人数这么多，听起来简直蠢得离谱。
这种消息编出来就是为了忽悠网上那些所谓的“历史正义”斗士。
这听起来就像哈马斯宣传部造谣说以色列在加沙杀了几十万人一样。
你们这些人理解“45000人”这个数字的概念吗？
4 赞2025/8/2
Awful and horrible as it was, making a historical claim of 45,000 killed is just false and a Google search easily brings that number into dispute. Furthermore, in addition to individuals killed at the hands of French authorities, many locals were killed by rioters. I understand this is Reddit so facts don't really matter, but this is also '
尽管这件事确实惨无人道，但声称历史上有45000人死亡纯属造谣，随便在谷歌搜一下就能发现这个数字争议很大。
此外，除了死于法国当局之手的人，许多当地人也是死于暴乱分子之手。
我明白这是在Reddit，事实并不重要，但好歹这也是“
3 赞2025/8/2
I hate how the combined west fought against Hitler and axis powers taking up high moral ground at the world stage but within their respective colonies were as brutal as Nazis were. Oh the hypocrisy.
我真讨厌这一点：西方国家联手抗击希特勒和轴心国时，一个个站在道德制高点上，可一转头在各自的殖民地里，干出的事儿跟纳粹没什么两样。真他妈虚伪。
3 赞2025/8/2
I would like to have sources for this statement. History buff,. Thank you to Op for providing reliable and impartial references. This will undoubtedly avoid abuses caused by trolls. Wiki speaks of 45,000 but these are the figures given by Algeria. The estimate, although very important, starts at 3000...and that's already a lot.,
我希望能看到这个说法的出处。我是个历史爱好者，先谢过楼主提供靠谱且中立的参考资料。这绝对能避免被那些喷子带节奏。维基百科上确实写了 45000，但那是阿尔及利亚方面给出的数字。估算值虽然波动很大，但起步才 3000……即便这样已经够惨了。
3 赞2025/8/2
They mustn't have got the memo that only the french are born and equal in rights ..
他们肯定没收到通知，毕竟只有法国人才享有“生而平等”的权利，对吧……
2 赞2025/8/2
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2 赞2025/8/2
Never knew about this until now. Jesus. In a day...
之前从没听说过这事。天呐。在一天之内……
2 赞2025/8/3
May 8 1945 was the day World War II ended in Europe. The focus of the world was there, not Algeria. Although Germany surrendered, the killing and dying there, on a large scale, continued.
1945 年 5 月 8 日是二战在欧洲结束的日子。当时世界的焦点都在那儿，根本没人在意阿尔及利亚。虽然德国投降了，但那儿的大规模杀戮和死亡依然在持续。
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The number of people that believe France's version of these event, aka the criminal, rather than the algerian one which are the victims, is crazy and honestly scary for the future. Looks like colonialism is bound to come back.
居然有这么多人宁愿相信法国这个“罪魁祸首”的版本，而不相信阿尔及利亚受害者提供的版本，这简直太疯狂了，想想未来都觉得后背发凉。看来殖民主义早晚得卷土重来。
2 赞2025/8/3
And people wonder what gives birth to terrorists.
这还有人纳闷恐怖分子是怎么生出来的呢。