← 返回首页
未来的伊丽莎白女王行纳粹礼。

未来的伊丽莎白女王行纳粹礼。

未来的伊丽莎白女王行纳粹礼。

20,963 赞 · 2025-07-05 · 90 条评论

评论 (90)

TheIrishman263,681 赞2025/7/5
At that point Hitler was seen as a decent leader (I said at that point, AT THAT POINT AT THAT POINT REDDIT)
那会儿希特勒确实被视为一个不错的领导人(我说的是那会儿,是那会儿,在那会儿Reddit网友消消气)
SergeantPsycho1,808 赞2025/7/5
This is an important thing to remember. The people in this photo didn't know then what we know now.
这点很重要,得记住。照片里的人那时候根本不知道我们现在所知的那些事。
RegorHK649 赞2025/7/5
One of the people was Edward VIII. "Many people in the 1930s thought this was an ideological war that they were living through. It's either communism or fascism and we have to support fascism," says Urbach. Prince Edward was "obsessed" by the murder of his Romanov cousins in Russia, she adds. [https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33594809](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33594809) He understood that the Nazis stood for violent struggle and instead of philosophically aligning himself with the current constitutional norms of the UK actually lent towards Hitler.
其中一个人是爱德华八世。 “很多生活在20世纪30年代的人认为,他们正亲历一场意识形态战争。我们要么选共产主义,要么选法西斯主义,我们必须支持法西斯主义,”厄巴赫(Urbach)说。她还补充道,爱德华王子对他在俄国的罗曼诺夫表亲被谋杀一事“极其痴迷”。 [https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33594809](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33594809) 他明白纳粹代表的是暴力斗争,但他并没有在哲学上与英国现行的宪政规范保持一致,反而实际上向希特勒靠拢了。
Sabnock31207 赞2025/7/5
Mein Kampf was published in 1926. In that book Hitler expressed many of his views on how and who he considered subhumans and how it is the right thing to genocide everything to the east of Germany.
《我的奋斗》1926年就出版了。希特勒在书里表达了很多观点,包括他认为谁是“次等人”、该怎么对待他们,以及把德国以东的所有地方都搞种族灭绝是“正确的事”。
RegorHK131 赞2025/7/6
The picture happened 1933 or after. At this point the Nazis already used violent Nazi methods in politics.
这张照片是1933年或之后拍的。那时候纳粹在政治手段上早就开始玩暴力那套了。
[已删除]70 赞2025/7/6
While I understand we have so much information instantly at our fingertips today, I can't speak for how and who information was relayed to back in the early to late years in the 1900's. I remember growing up in the 90's that unless it was "world shattering" news, I didn't know a whole lot about things going on in Russia, Australia, or even Japan, just what cultural norms we were taught as kids. I had no idea that in the 1980's, Iran's culture shifted from a western civilization to a more religious extremism due to the rise of Islam. If you had asked me what I knew about the middle east, 90's kid version of me would have said I knew about Desert storm and that everyone wears robes and women cover their faces with traditional Islamic clothes. I only learned RECENTLY ( 2 years ago) that Iran was not like this at all and was under a Monarchy that valued Western values, that women could walk out in public without a man, that they worse clothes like the women in my life here in America would wear and have similar fashion styles, that men while sexist and dated for their time would still respect women as people and not objects or property. I think it's completely plausible that if this is indeed a young queen, that perhaps Hitler was still viewed at as somewhat favorable because of his accomplishments he made in Germany such us the advancements of the Autobahn and highways, the affordable vehicle that VW's produced, and being credited for helping Germany come out of poverty created from not only WWI but also the great depression. I can also believe that people back then doing salutes like this STILL didn't know about atrocities being committed because historians even today claim that the west only uncovered the bulk of the war crimes committed by Germany's old leadership AFTER the war was in its final year. The only people who knew about the terrible things the third Reich did were the people giving the orders, the people carrying out the orders, and those who were forever silenced after the order was carried out. For the most part, the rest of the world was too busy trying to fight back the Nazi soldiers to truly know what was happening behind enemy lines.
虽然我理解如今我们随时随地都能获取海量信息,但我没法断言在20世纪初到后期,信息是如何传递的,又是传达给谁的。 我记得在90年代长大时,除非是“惊天动地”的大新闻,否则我对俄罗斯、澳大利亚甚至日本发生的事情了解不多,知道的仅仅是我们小时候被灌输的那些文化常识。我完全不知道在80年代,由于伊斯兰教的兴起,伊朗的文化从西方文明转向了更极端的宗教主义。如果你问那时候的我对中东了解多少,90年代的小屁孩肯定会说,我知道“沙漠风暴”行动,知道每个人都穿长袍,女人戴着传统的伊斯兰面纱。我直到最近(两年前)才知道,伊朗根本不是那样,它曾是一个推崇西方价值观的君主国,那里的女性可以不用男人陪同走在街上,她们穿的衣服和我在美国生活周围的女性一样,时尚风格也很相似;男人虽然在当时看来有性别歧视和过时的观念,但仍把女性当人看,而不是物或财产。 我认为完全合理的一种解释是,如果视频里确实是年幼的女王,也许希特勒当时在某种程度上被视为正面人物,因为他在德国取得了一些成就,比如高速公路(Autobahn)的建设、大众汽车生产的平价车,而且他被认为是帮助德国摆脱一战后及大萧条带来的贫困的功臣。我也相信,当时做出那种敬礼动作的人,确实还不知道正在发生的暴行,因为即使是今天的历史学家也宣称,西方是在二战最后一年才揭开了德国旧领导层犯下的大部分战争罪行。当时唯一知道第三帝国所作所为的人,只有下令的人、执行命令的人,以及在命令执行后永远闭嘴的人。在很大程度上,世界其他地方的人正忙着抵抗纳粹士兵,根本无暇真正了解敌后发生了什么。
Short_Stay_928335 赞2025/7/6
You know who probs had access to information? The Royal fucking family lmao
你知道谁最有可能掌握信息吗?英国王室那帮老铁呗,笑死。
LogOverall190531 赞2025/7/6
A lot of people claim they read it but they haven’t. When I read it years ago I was surprised to find out it was more rants about great Germany, his plan to defeat France with some rambling about races. I don’t even remember if there was anything about Jews in there. Again it was years ago and it was painful to read.
很多人吹牛说自己读过那本书,其实根本没看过。我几年前读过,很惊讶地发现里面尽是些关于“伟大德国”的疯话,还有他打算怎么打败法国的计划,夹杂着一堆种族主义的胡言乱语。我甚至都不记得里面提没提犹太人了。反正那是好几年前的事了,读起来真费劲。
[已删除]22 赞2025/7/6
There absolutely is the groundwork for the Aryan superiority, Jews as corrupters of culture and as an existential threat to Aryan society. There wasn’t just ramblings about races. When you have an outline of you being part of the in-group, and when you really start to face problems like inflation, and depression, it’s easy to see why people fall into the trap of believing that the others are the reason for their woes. Especially with a propaganda machine at work. If you think America is fucked now, wait until these new economic policies push us into a full blown depression. That’s the tipping point. We already have the same groundwork laid, just a different flavor.
雅利安人优越论、犹太人是文化腐蚀者并对雅利安社会构成生存威胁的论调,这些绝对是有群众基础的。那不仅仅是关于种族的胡言乱语。 当你被划归为“圈内人”,且真的开始面临通货膨胀和经济萧条这种困境时,很容易理解为什么人们会掉进“把痛苦归咎于他人”的陷阱。尤其是在宣传机器开足马力运转的情况下。 如果你觉得现在的美国已经够烂(fucked)了,那就等着瞧吧,等这些新的经济政策把我们彻底推向大萧条。那才是临界点。我们已经具备了同样的群众基础,只是换了个版本而已。
dorkstafarian29 赞2025/7/5
The Queen mum was a grown woman. The one filming was probably Elizabeth's father, George VI. All of Prince Philip's sisters were married with German officers, one of them even SS. Also, by the time of the Munich treaty, the Nazis had already bombed Guernica and enacted the Nuremberg race laws. Totalitarianism had been in force since 1934. A little too convenient to blame it all on uncle Eddie.
王太后当时已经是成年人了。拍视频的人很可能是伊丽莎白的父亲,乔治六世。 菲利普亲王的所有姐妹都嫁给了德国军官,其中一个甚至嫁给了党卫军成员。 此外,到慕尼黑协定签署时,纳粹已经轰炸了格尔尼卡并颁布了纽伦堡种族法。极权主义自1934年起就已经在实施了。 把一切都赖在爱德华叔叔一个人头上,未免也太方便了。
ChiefsHat172 赞2025/7/5
Can’t terribly say I blame him if he can’t stop thinking about how the Soviets murdered his cousins. Reading about how it happened is brutal.
如果他满脑子都是他那些被苏联人谋杀的表亲,我也真没法怪他。读到那段历史的真相简直太残暴了。
toggiz_the_elder109 赞2025/7/5
His cousins were violently oppressing their people. The Czar was a piece of shit.
他那些表亲当时在暴力镇压人民。沙皇就是个烂人。
throwaway123420lol134 赞2025/7/5
Yeah, usually people are willing to acknowledge that. It's the children that were also murdered that most people get upset about. They hadn't oppressed anyone, yet..
是啊,这点大家通常都承认。但让人们真正无法接受的是那些被杀的孩子。他们还没来得及压迫谁呢……
taylorbagel1459 赞2025/7/5
And (I’m not sure this was common knowledge or if even a king would’ve known this at the time) the young girls died brutally. Unbeknownst to the soldiers, they had sewn jewels into their dresses and when the guards started shooting them, the bullets killed the parents, servants, and son but ricocheted off of the girls. The guards then had to come in and bludgeon and bayonet the girls to death. The oldest (Olga) was only 23 and the youngest (Anastasia) was 17. If they were my cousins I’d be pretty hung up on that myself.
而且(我不确定当时这是不是人尽皆知,或者连国王本人知不知情)那几个年轻女孩死得太惨了。卫兵们当时不知道,女孩们的裙子里缝满了珠宝,子弹打在她们身上弹开了,反而把父母、仆人和儿子给打死了。卫兵最后只能冲进去,用枪托砸、用刺刀捅,硬生生把她们给弄死了。老大(奥尔加)才23岁,最小的(安娜斯塔西娅)才17岁。要是她们是我表亲,我也绝对走不出这道坎。
UnwieldingBlade34 赞2025/7/5
Weren’t they also kinda just dumped in a ditch after they got gunned down, I might be remembering wrong
他们被枪决之后是不是就随便扔沟里了?我记忆可能有点模糊。
[已删除]46 赞2025/7/5
All but two were given a shallow mass grave in one secluded location and poorly covered in lye. Two more (the son and one of the daughters, there is some debate on which) were given the same treatment a little further away. To this day the two children's bodies' identities remain unrecognized by the Russian government and are seperate from the rest of their family. From what I understand the slaughtering and disposal were done hastily because nobody wanted that, even the guards who had actually formed friendships and celebrated birthdays with the children, and an approaching group was about to possibly free the family that day. It's been a while since I've researched it so don't take this second paragraph as fact
除了两个孩子,其余人都被草草埋进了一个偏僻处的集体坑里,还撒了生石灰。另外两个(儿子和其中一个女儿,具体是谁还有争议)被埋在稍微远一点的地方,待遇也差不多。直到今天,这两个孩子的遗骸身份还没得到俄罗斯政府的正式确认,一直和家人分开安置。
TheoryKing0420 赞2025/7/6
It’s partially true. The initially round of guards had become very close with the family, but the men under Yurovsky’s employ were new men who didn’t really know the family.
这说法半真半假吧。最开始的那批卫兵确实跟这家人混熟了,但尤罗夫斯基手底下的那些人是新调来的,压根儿就不认识这家人。
cfmonkey4522 赞2025/7/5
By the time they were murdered, the Czar had been out of power for several years and was confined under house arrest. His cousins were forced to abdicate in the February Revolution, and there was a provisional election that was held to determine whether Russia would become a Constitutional Monarchy under member of the Romanov family, or a Presidential Republic. Regardless of whether or not they were pieces of shit, they were no longer in power. When Lenin found that the Bolsheviks performed poorly, they staged a putsch using their resources from the Petrograd Soviet to overthrow the Provisional Government and start the October Revolution. Then, a few years into the Civil War, they murdered the Czar and his family.
他们被杀的时候,沙皇都已经退位好几年了,一直被软禁着。他的表亲在二月革命中被迫退位,当时还有过一次临时选举,来决定俄罗斯是成为由罗曼诺夫家族成员领导的君主立宪制国家,还是总统制共和国。不管他们是不是烂人,当时他们都已经没权没势了。
Hot_History158244 赞2025/7/5
Little girls were violently oppressing people? They murdered a bunch of children
小女孩在暴力镇压人民?他们杀掉的明明是一群孩子。
[已删除]29 赞2025/7/5
[内容已删除]
Ibn_Ali59 赞2025/7/5
The children, no, but it wasn't like the Nazis magically turned into what we know them as overnight. Their violent antisemitism was already on full display, its just that more of society at the time was perfectly fine with it. Racism and hate were not as frowned upon as they are today. Obviously.
孩子们确实没干过,但纳粹也不是一夜之间突然变身成我们现在认识的那副德行的。他们那套暴力的反犹主义当时就已经随处可见了,只是那个年代的大多数社会风气对这玩意儿完全能接受罢了。
Kaffe-Mumriken30 赞2025/7/5
It wasn’t violent yet, but even then, people all over Europe hated Jews. Ireland for example were extremely hesitant to take in Jewish refugees from Germany citing “cultural differences”
那时候虽然还没发生暴力事件,但当时全欧洲的人都恨犹太人。
CratesManager19 赞2025/7/5
>people all over Europe hated Jews. See, that's true but it also goes against "they didn't know". They knew enough, they just tolerated or even endorsed it.
>全欧洲的人都讨厌犹太人。 你看,这话说得没错,但这恰恰反驳了“他们不知道”的说法。他们知道的足够多,只不过是选择了容忍甚至背书而已。
Lumpy-Economics202144 赞2025/7/5
Yeah, like me saying Elon Musk is 'probably alright' 2 years ago....
是啊,这就跟我两年前说马斯克“这人估计还行”一样……
Super-Cynical22 赞2025/7/5
A lot of people don't know things until it's shoved right in their faces. Lots of Americans gave straight arm salutes at the book of condolence for the Hindenburg disaster, which was in 1937.
很多人不到火烧眉毛的时候,是根本不会去了解真相的。
AnakinSkycocker572690 赞2025/7/5
At that point he had been in jail already for attempting a militant coup and had already written mein kampf. Then he was in power and implementing his race laws. This is 1933
到那时候,他都已经因为试图发动武装政变坐过牢,连《我的奋斗》都写出来了。接着他上台执政,开始推行种族法。这可是1933年的事儿。
ClashM19 赞2025/7/5
At the time everyone was more scared of communism. A right-wing government taking over what looked to be the hotbed of a new communist movement in Europe was welcomed by the rich and powerful. They either didn't know or turned a blind eye to all the communists, socialists, liberals, racial minorities, and sexual minorities being rounded up and killed.
当时所有人更怕的是共产主义。在一个欧洲新共产主义运动的温床地,一个右翼政府能上台掌权,这简直让那些权贵们乐开了花。至于那些被抓起来处决的共产主义者、社会主义者、自由派、少数族裔和性少数群体,他们要么是不知道,要么就是睁一只眼闭一只眼。
Visual_Friendship70624 赞2025/7/5
Yeah, but my country’s propaganda said we were caught off guard.
嘿,但我们国家的宣传可是说我们是被打了个措手不及。
PancakeMixEnema38 赞2025/7/5
Hey hey, white Christian and heterosexual people with stable income and centrist views always need an additional decade to get to the point where they realise what the people not in that list already died for. Can’t blame them for ignoring everything. Do you expect them to care for the Union people already in the camps by that year, or the burned queer research institute? /s
嘿嘿,那些收入稳定、观点中立的白人基督教异性恋群体,总是需要多花十年时间才能意识到那些“不在名单里”的人早已为之付出生命的东西。 不能怪他们对一切视而不见。 难道你指望他们在那个年代去关心那些已经在集中营里的工会成员,或者是那个被烧毁的酷儿研究中心吗?/s
Odd-Professor-530984 赞2025/7/5
No need to apologise. The west chose to support Stalin. His actions at the beginning of WW2 of invasion, murder, rape and deportations didn't seem to bother anyone. His end game was obvious. But the west still supported him.
没必要道歉。 西方选择了支持斯大林。 他在二战初期进行的入侵、谋杀、强奸和驱逐行动,似乎并没有让任何人感到困扰。 他的最终目的显而易见。但西方依然支持他。
DayAccomplishedStill65 赞2025/7/5
"The west" was mostly doing the same in their colonies... So I don't know what you wanted to convey there.
“西方”自己在殖民地干的事儿不也半斤八两么……
ChiefsHat17 赞2025/7/5
“West chose to support Stalin” in lieu of doing what? Who should the west have supported instead of Stalin?
“西方选择支持斯大林”,那不然呢?除此之外还能支持谁?
Fit_Rice_348528 赞2025/7/5
The “west” themselves committed rape, murder and segregation in the beginning of the war, so did Japan, so did Germany once they landed on USSR territory What was the “west” supposed to do? Stand by and watch as the Nazis did what the pleased? They already did that with the carving up of checkezlovakia with the “wests” help, this directly resulted in Stalin annexing his one half of Poland to use as a buffer for when the Nazis started their attack
“西方”自己在战争初期也犯下了强奸、谋杀和种族隔离,日本也是,德国在踏上苏联领土后也是。 那“西方”该怎么办?站在旁边看着纳粹为所欲为吗? 在“西方”的帮助下瓜分捷克斯洛伐克时,他们就已经这么做过了,这直接导致斯大林吞并了属于他的那半个波兰,以此作为纳粹进攻时的缓冲地带。
JamieDoesMaths38 赞2025/7/5
I’m sorry but no. This photo was taken in either 1933 or 1934. By June 1933 the Nazis had already: Orchestrated the Reichstag fire to undemocratically seize power. Systematically terrorised and forcibly closed businesses and social spaces used by Jewish people, lgbtq people and other minorities Built Dachau Concentration Camp and started imprisoning protestors and workers wanting labour rights. Legally prohibited Jewish religious practices Purged the civil service Destroyed the institute of sexual research Institutes a program of forced sterilisation of autistic people and those deemed hereditarily ill Instituted the mass burning of books and knowledge that set some scientific and philosophical fields back decades Suspended a large majority of the civil liberties of the German populous. Regardless of the time period, NONE of these actions are those of a decent, moral leader. This is the royal family of a liberal (original British meaning of the word, not the current American meaning), democratic nation that prides itself of ‘civilising the world’. They did know better.
抱歉,我不认同。 这张照片拍摄于1933年或1934年。到1933年6月,纳粹已经完成了以下操作: 策划国会纵火案,以非民主手段夺取政权。 系统性地恐吓并强行关闭犹太人、LGBTQ人群和其他少数群体使用的商业和社会空间。 修建达豪集中营,开始监禁抗议者和争取劳工权利的工人。 从法律上禁止犹太宗教活动。 清洗公务员队伍。 摧毁性学研究所。 启动对自闭症患者和被视为遗传病患者的强制绝育计划。 大规模焚烧书籍和知识,导致某些科学和哲学领域倒退了几十年。 暂停了德国民众绝大多数的公民自由。 无论处于什么时代,这些行为绝不是一个正派、有道德的领导人会做的。 这可是来自一个自由主义(英国原意,非现代美国意)、民主国家、并以“文明世界”自居的王室家族。 他们明明应该更清楚是非对错。
[已删除]15 赞2025/7/6
[内容已删除]
[已删除]20 赞2025/7/5
After he wrote mein kampf?
在他写完《我的奋斗》之后?
[已删除]30 赞2025/7/5
I dont think the west were bothered by his antisemtism or the idea of being the superior race. At that time French murdered hundred of thousands of Algerian civilians, same thing in India, the US had a zoo where a black boy was on display, the Dreyfus trial in France, eugenic was a real science. People just want to blame everything bad on Hitler as if he was the only racist psychopath of his time.
我觉得西方人并不在乎他的反犹主义,也不在乎什么优等种族那一套。 当时法国屠杀了成千上万的阿尔及利亚平民,印度的情况也一样。美国甚至有动物园把黑人小孩当展品,法国有德雷福斯案件,优生学在当时可是真正的“科学”。 人们只是想把所有坏事都赖在希特勒头上,就好像他是那个时代唯一的种族主义变态疯子一样。
[已删除]16 赞2025/7/5
[内容已删除]
Leading_Put-24 赞2025/7/5
Nah they agreed with what he implied in Mein Kampf. Jewish hatred was always more accepted than we realize
拉倒吧,他们其实认同他在《我的奋斗》里暗示的那套。反犹主义在当时可比我们意识到的要普遍得多。
RegorHK20 赞2025/7/5
What time was that? He published "Main Kampf" 1925. Not to blame princess Elisabeth, yet I find the opinion "he was seen as decent" ridiculous and a failure of journalism / perception by people who should know better. I do not mean you. I mean the people who did "see him as a decent leader". Or rather the dynamic, by witch his published political statements were not considered.
那是什么时候的事?他1925年就出版《我的奋斗》了。 我不是要怪伊丽莎白公主,但我依然觉得那种“他当时被视为体面人”的观点简直荒谬透顶,那是新闻界或当时本该洞察一切的人们感知力严重缺失的表现。 我说的不是你。我说的是那些“确实把他看作体面领导人”的人。或者更准确地说,是指那种导致他公开发表的政治言论被无视的舆论氛围。
[已删除]1,794 赞2025/7/5
This is in 1933, and Queen Elizabeth II was 7 years old. This is a nothing burger. Edit: in 1933, plenty of people in numerous countries were sympathetic to the Nazis and many western countries had blatantly racist policies. Eugenics and scientific racism were very fashionable. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
这事儿发生在1933年,伊丽莎白女王二世当时才7岁。这纯属没事找事(nothing burger)。
RegorHK432 赞2025/7/5
It is interesting as it shows political dynamics. She certainly did not do this because she researched Nazis on their own and got convinced. It shows how prevalent the symbols of the ideology were and how people misunderstood Hitlers goals. "Mein Kampf" was published 1925.
这事儿挺有意思,因为它反映了当时的政治动态。她显然不是因为研究了纳粹思想才被洗脑的。这足以说明当时那种意识形态符号有多泛滥,人们又有多曲解希特勒的野心。《我的奋斗》可是1925年就出版了。
Nachooolo201 赞2025/7/6
She didn't do it because she knew anything Hitler (even superficially). She did it because she was 7, her uncle was an actual Nazi, and he told her to do it. There's nothing about "political dynamics" here.
她做这动作才不是因为她了解希特勒(哪怕是皮毛)。她这么做纯粹是因为她当时才7岁,她叔叔是个彻头彻尾的纳粹,是他叫她这么做的。
CatBoyTrip34 赞2025/7/6
was gonna ask if that was her uncle behind her.
本来想问她身后那人是不是她叔叔。
[已删除]64 赞2025/7/6
The king, (her uncle)his wife and him image
国王(她叔叔)、他的妻子,还有他本人。
Ed_herbie21 赞2025/7/6
And her grandfather, King George V was German, had German royal titles, and had a German royal family name until he changed it to Windsor during WWI
而且她爷爷乔治五世国王是德国人,有德国皇室头衔,还有个德国皇室姓氏,直到一战时才改成了温莎。
AlfieOwens78 赞2025/7/6
An English translation wasn’t published until 1933, and that was an abridgment.
英译本直到1933年才出版,而且还是个删节版。
IndividualTrash502919 赞2025/7/5
> "Mein Kampf" was published 1925. yes but >By January 1933, a total of 287,000 copies of all editions had been sold. After that, circulation soared. According to historian Othmar Plöckinger, 854,127 copies were sold between January and November 17, 1933.
> “《我的奋斗》是1925年出版的。” 是啊,但是: > 到1933年1月,所有版本累计销量达287,000册。此后发行量飙升。据历史学家奥特马尔·普勒金格(Othmar Plöckinger)考证,仅在1933年1月至11月17日期间,销量就达到了854,127册。
CherryPickerKill26 赞2025/7/6
Meanwhile, Project 2025 is accessible online and people still won't read it.
与此同时,“2025计划”明明可以在网上直接查到,但人们还是懒得看。
Icy-Bicycle-Crab35 赞2025/7/5
She's also dead. So yeah, who cares.
而且她人都没了。所以啊,谁在乎呢。
dontcallmebettyal38 赞2025/7/6
That's a very odd perspective to have for someone in a history subreddit
在历史讨论版里持这种观点,真是够奇葩的。
Nachooolo1,505 赞2025/7/6
Blokes here going into rants without knowing jack shit about the context. She was 7 in this photo. She did not know anything about the Nazis by the simple fact that she was a close to toddler. The reason she did it was because her uncle (the man in the photo), the future Edward VIII, was an actual Nazi (which was one of the reasons he was forced to abdicate). Basically her Nazi uncle made her do the Seig Heil when she didn't know what the Hell it meant. This is not evidence of the Nazis being widly popular in Europe as some blokes here think. The same way that your ubcle being part of the Aryan Brotherhood isn't prove that Neo-Nazism is a widly held political ideology in your country. Edit: The photograph was done in 1933, 3 years before Edward VIII became the king (and 3/4 years before he abdicated), and 6 years before the start of WW2. So some of the arguments done here below ("they were at war, they should have known better") do not make sense. Also. While marrying a divorcee was te main reason he abdicated, his support of the Nazis when the British government was already opposed to Hitler was also an important reason for his abdication. Stories like the King's speech ignore this as a way to present him in a more sympathetic light. But, just like Braveheart is a horrible representation of the Wallace Rebellion, these stories do a bad job at representing Edward VIII and the controversies around him during his own era. Finally. I'm a Spanish republican (and actual republican, not what American means by it). I have no love for my country's monarchy, let alone the British one. There are enough legit reasons to hate Elizabeth II's reign to invent fake ones.
这儿有些家伙简直是在胡言乱语,对背景情况屁都不懂。 照片里的她才7岁。她当时离幼儿也就差几岁,对纳粹压根儿一无所知。 她之所以做那个动作,是因为她叔叔(照片里的男人),也就是后来的爱德华八世,是个货真价实的纳粹分子(这也是他被迫退位的原因之一)。说白了,就是她那个纳粹叔叔教唆她行纳粹礼,而她根本不知道那玩意儿是啥意思。 这可不是某些人以为的“纳粹在欧洲广受欢迎”的证据。这就好比如果你叔叔是雅利安兄弟会的成员,也不能证明新纳粹主义就是你国家普遍认同的政治意识形态。 补充:这张照片拍于1933年,那是爱德华八世继位前3年(距离他退位还有3/4年),离二战爆发还有6年。所以下面那些论调(比如“当时都在打仗了,他们本该更明智些”)完全站不住脚。 还有,虽然娶了离婚女性是他退位的主要原因,但他在英国政府已经反对希特勒的情况下依然支持纳粹,也是他退位的重要考量。《国王的演讲》这类故事刻意忽略了这一点,好让他看起来更讨喜。但就像《勇敢的心》对华莱士起义的描述烂透了一样,这些故事在呈现爱德华八世及其身处时代争议性这一点上,表现得也很糟糕。 最后,我是个西班牙共和派(是真正意义上的共和派,不是美国人定义的那种)。我对我自己国家的王室没半点好感,更别提英国王室了。 想讨厌伊丽莎白二世的统治,有的是正当理由,没必要去编造那些虚假的指控。
MrCodeman93448 赞2025/7/6
Stop being rational and using logic.
别再讲什么理性和逻辑了。
3-orange-whips123 赞2025/7/6
Yeah. I prefer to tell a winding story about lizard people in this scenario.
是啊。在这种情况下,我更喜欢编个关于蜥蜴人的弯弯绕故事。
slappy_joe625 赞2025/7/6
Ikr? What's this dude doing on reddit when he's obviously touching grass everyday?
可不是吗?这哥们儿明明每天都去户外呼吸新鲜空气了,怎么还有空在 Reddit 上混啊?
PinboardWizard302 赞2025/7/6
Don't forget how once she turned 18 she literally joined the army to fight against the Nazis. Even if you pretend she loved them as a child, she sure as hell didn't once she grew up.
别忘了她18岁一成年,就直接入伍去跟纳粹干仗了。 就算你非要臆想她小时候是纳粹粉丝,反正她长大后绝对不是,那是肯定的。
Ok_Moon_112 赞2025/7/6
Yep. She drove a friggin' ambulance for the Allies.
没错。她还给盟军开了好长一段时间救护车呢。
holdsp68 赞2025/7/6
And maintained it
而且还要负责维修。
[已删除]42 赞2025/7/6
I mean I grew up in the 60s and kids were doing hitler salutes with their fingers on their lip all the time. It wasn't because we approved of Nazi ideology. It was because Hitler was a figure of mockery. The problem.is that other countries don't get English culture. We take the piss a lot, and especially out of pompous twats like Hitler. The idiots who see a photo of a family larking about and make conclusive assertions that it must show the subjects are supporting Hitler just don't understand Englishness at all. It's like thinking all the people who write comments in Trump speak on Reddit are genuine MAGA supporters
我是60年代长大的,当时小孩儿老是把手指放在嘴唇上做希特勒礼。那并不是因为我们认可纳粹那一套,而是因为希特勒当时就是个被嘲笑的对象。问题在于其他国家的人根本不懂英国文化。我们很喜欢“取笑”别人,尤其是针对希特勒这种自命不凡的蠢货。那些看到一张家人打闹的照片,就言之凿凿说这是在支持希特勒的白痴,根本就没搞懂英国人的梗。这就好比觉得在 Reddit 上用特朗普那种语气评论的人全是 MAGA 的死忠粉一样可笑。
Orcrist9040 赞2025/7/6
It's not even that. It was a common salute based on the romanticized Roman Salute that was adopted by the Nazi Party, after which lead to people throughout the world, including the US, discontinuing it because of its association with Nazi Germany.
不止是这样。这甚至都不是纳粹首创的,它原本是基于一种被浪漫化的“罗马式敬礼”,后来被纳粹党采纳了。在那之后,包括美国在内的世界各地才因为这玩意儿和纳粹德国的关联而停止使用它。
g_shogun24 赞2025/7/6
Wasn't a salute originally, it was the Oath of the Horatii. It's still used during swearing-ins in Latin America and some Arabic countries.
它最初也不是什么敬礼,而是“荷拉提兄弟宣誓”(Oath of the Horatii)。
Kooky-Ad155115 赞2025/7/6
And they are German, after all. The House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. These german royals changed their name to Windsor during WWI.
再说了,他们毕竟是德国人嘛。萨克森-科堡-哥达王朝。这一支德国王室在二战期间才把姓氏改成了温莎。
BuyIllustrious4576441 赞2025/7/5
At the time, the full horrors of the Nazi regime weren’t yet known. It was just a child’s moment, long before Nazi atrocities were understood, and likely taken out of context.
在那个年代,纳粹政权干的那些惨绝人寰的事儿还没完全曝光呢。那不过是孩子的一瞬间而已,那时候还没人理解纳粹的暴行,照片很可能是被断章取义了。
Sloppykrab202 赞2025/7/5
This was 1933, nothing was known yet. Hitler hasn't even begun to start the atrocities. Also at this time, this was known as the Bellamy Salute and was taught to children in USA schools en masse. Edit: USA
那会儿才1933年,啥都还没发生呢。希特勒当时的暴行甚至都还没开张。
DemiGodCat2325 赞2025/7/5
rare historical photo sub hijacked by the usual crowd again
那个冷门历史照片版块又被那帮老面孔给占领了。
FrescoItaliano58 赞2025/7/5
Yeah as opposed to the non politically motivated picture of the Wehrmacht soldiers in a motorcycle also on the sub rn where someone unironically asks “how do you know they were fascists?”
呵,那可真比不上版里现在挂着的另一张照片——几个德军士兵骑摩托车那张。底下居然有人认真的问:“你怎么知道他们是法西斯?”
[已删除]20 赞2025/7/5
A lot of people are still sold on the Clean Wehrmacht myth.
很多人还是对“干净的国防军”那种洗白神话深信不疑。
SokkaHaikuBot28 赞2025/7/5
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^DemiGodCat2: *Rare historical* *Photo sub hijacked by the* *Usual crowd again* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
eliazhar128 赞2025/7/5
I will farm downvotes: Europe only began claiming an ideological difference from Hitler when he made it very clear he also saw them as enemies. Long before that, the West was a source of inspiration for his Reich (and vice versa); it's quite an eye-opener seeing people defending the Duke of Windsor here.
我准备好被踩到折叠了:欧洲国家只有在希特勒明确表示把他们也视为敌人时,才开始装模作样地宣称自己在意识形态上和希特勒有分歧。
[已删除]44 赞2025/7/6
Winner winner winner. Hitler took direct inspiration from the KKK and Confederacy. Refugee Jews were turned away from many western nations before the war. Hitler's rhetoric was not a secret, most people just agreed with it. WW2 was not a "fight against ultimate evil" as we've been told so many times, so much as it was a fight between moneyed interests. Hitler was bad for business, and many countries only joined the fight when they were personally affected. "First they came" and all that.
说得太对了。希特勒直接从三K党和美利坚联盟国那儿吸取了“灵感”。二战前,很多西方国家把逃难的犹太人拒之门外。希特勒的言论当时又不是什么秘密,大多数人根本就是认同的。二战根本不像我们被洗脑的那样是所谓的“对抗绝对邪恶”,本质上就是各方金主利益的博弈。希特勒坏了他们的生意,所以很多国家只有在自己受损时才被迫入局。“起初他们抓捕……”那套说辞大家都懂。
ParkingLong743615 赞2025/7/6
This is the complete truth and it's an absolute shame that the modern education about the holocaust focusses almost solely on the Germans and Hitler. European countries would have not given the slightest shit if Hitler comitted the Holocaust without also invading other countries. Antisemitism was the *norm* at that time, all over Europe. It has long and deep roots dating back to several hundred years in the continent. Not to excuse anything the Nazid did - of course. But the Allies like to leave out *a lot* when teaching about the circumstances of that whole time period and the war..
这才是大实话。现代教育讲大屠杀时几乎只盯着德国人和希特勒,这简直太讽刺了。如果希特勒没去入侵其他国家,而是只搞大屠杀,欧洲那些国家才懒得管呢,根本不会在意。
Yorbayuul8137 赞2025/7/5
Her intentions are undoubtedly as clear as the photo is
她的意图和这张照片一样,毫无疑问是清清楚楚的。
[已删除]33 赞2025/7/5
This picture was taken around the time the Eugenics movement was coming to an end. During this era, a lot of people within the United States either hated Jews or didn't have a problem with those that did.
这张照片拍摄的时候,优生学运动正处于尾声。在那个年代,美国国内很多人要么是反犹分子,要么就是对反犹行为睁一只眼闭一只眼。
amievenrelevant27 赞2025/7/5
There were much more overt Nazi sympathizers in the royal family like King Edward VIII, but obviously sympathy for the Germans started to change dramatically after the shitshow he caused
皇室里那些纳粹同情者其实多的是,比如爱德华八世国王,但很明显,在他搞出那一堆烂摊子之后,大家对德国人的同情心就急剧降温了。
Wish_I_WasInRome26 赞2025/7/6
Reddit looking at history through a modern lens will always be cringe. Do better.
Reddit 用现代人的视角去审视历史,真是一如既往地让人尴尬。长点心吧。
KaminBoiBambi24 赞2025/7/5
image type of shit
这种烂活儿也能发出来?真的是笑死人了。
Shade_Of_Virgil18 赞2025/7/5
The British royal family bankrolled the Nazi through British petroleum. The British Royal family were Nazis, until it became unpopular
英国皇室通过英国石油公司给纳粹送钱。英国皇室本质上就是纳粹,直到后来这玩意儿变得不招人待见了。
TK-697616 赞2025/7/5
The reason is obvious. Edward VIII, the British King at the time, was a Nazi supporter. Mind you, he was deeply unpopular with most of the country, but still. QEII was 7 years old and likely had no idea what that truly meant. Also, Hitler hadn't started publicly committing acts of violence that were seen as being uniquely bad, and more people were concerned about the Soviet Union.
原因显而易见。当时的英国国王爱德华八世就是个纳粹支持者。提醒一下,他在国内大部分地区都极其不受欢迎,但这事儿确实存在。而伊丽莎白二世那时候才 7 岁,估计根本不知道这意味着什么。
StrikingMaximum198316 赞2025/7/5
Oh, Uncle David! Indoctrinating your nieces!
噢,大卫叔叔!你这是在给你的侄女们洗脑呢!
twitchmcgee15 赞2025/7/5
Imagine the insecurity it takes to make an alternate reddit account just to post this one picture. What's wrong your other account got banned already??
到底得多没安全感才需要专门注册个小号来发这张图啊?怎么着,你大号被封了??
[已删除]13 赞2025/7/5
[内容已删除]
ScarlyLamorna12 赞2025/7/6
Ah yes, let's hold everyone fully accountable for things they did when they were 7 years old.
啊对对对,咱们非得让一个人为她 7 岁时做的事负全责,没毛病。
dontcallmebettyal12 赞2025/7/6
This comment section is really depressing
这评论区真是让人绝望。
Silaquix12 赞2025/7/6
I see a lot of presentism in the comments. It's important to remember that back then there was no Internet or video evidence or any of that. There was also a lot of propaganda and misinformation coming out of Germany. So at the time people had no idea about the atrocities going on. Many people straight up called it a lie when reports started trickling in because it was unfathomable. Many today still do not believe it happened even with survivors and tons of physical evidence. People at the time, even in Britain and the US had many of the same bigoted views towards Jewish people, gay people, people of color, etc. Many still do. So Hitler's anti Jewish rhetoric was nothing new and was pretty popular among a lot of people in Europe. Unfortunately many still feel this way Another thing to remember was that until the war broke out and started consuming Europe, many people openly supported fascism. They felt it was a war between fascism and communism. The royal family was still reeling from the murders of their cousins in Russia and we're extremely anti Communist. Finally above all Elizabeth was a child at the time being coached by her uncle and other adults who supported anything that was the polar opposite of communism. Britain and the US did not fight Hitler for ideological reasons. It was purely about self preservation and revenge after being attacked. It wasn't until after the war when all the atrocities came to light that they started crafting the narrative that they were the good guys fighting evil.
我看到评论区里充斥着“当代中心主义”(用现在的眼光评判过去)。 必须记住,那时候既没有互联网,也没有视频证据什么的。当时从德国传出来的全是各种宣传和假消息。所以当时的人们根本不知道那里正在发生暴行。当消息一点点传出来时,很多人甚至直接斥之为谎言,因为这简直令人无法想象。哪怕到了今天,在有幸存者和大量实证的情况下,依然有很多人不信那是真的。 当时的人,甚至在英国和美国,对犹太人、同性恋、有色人种等群体都持有同样的偏见。很多人至今仍是如此。所以希特勒反犹那套说辞并不是什么新鲜玩意儿,在欧洲很多人看来还挺“受欢迎”的。不幸的是,很多人到现在还是这种心态。 还得记住一点,在战争爆发并席卷欧洲之前,很多人是公开支持法西斯的。他们觉得那是一场法西斯主义和共产主义之间的战争。当时英国王室还没从俄国亲戚被杀的阴影中走出来,所以极度反共。 最后,最重要的一点,伊丽莎白当时只是个孩子,是在她叔叔和其他成年人的教唆下这么做的,而那些成年人支持一切与共产主义截然相反的东西。 英美开战对抗希特勒并不是出于什么意识形态原因,纯粹是为了自保和遭到攻击后的复仇。直到战后所有暴行大白于天下,他们才开始包装出“他们是对抗邪恶的正义一方”这种叙事。
Mindless-Peak-168711 赞2025/7/6
Perform. not preform you useless karma farmer.
是“perform”(表演),不是“preform”(预成型),你个骗赞的废物。
pixietrue19 赞2025/7/5
Sure let’s judge a child for imitating and following adult orders.
行吧,咱们这就来评判一个模仿并听从大人指令的孩子。
grania179 赞2025/7/5
Guess what? Children in the US used to say the pledge of allegiance doing this exact salute. Know why we put our hand on our hearts now? You guessed it Nazi's. As others have said, this is such a nothing photo.
猜怎么着?以前美国的学生宣誓效忠时做的就是这个姿势。知道为什么现在我们要把手放在心口了吗?没错,就是因为纳粹。正如其他人所说,这张照片根本没啥大不了的。
Realistic_Champion909 赞2025/7/5
Stupid. This looks like a photo of them waving. Why make something like this up?
有病吧。这看着就像是在挥手。非要编这种玩意儿干嘛?
Yorbayuul818 赞2025/7/5
Taken back when pixel rationing was all the rage
这照片拍的时候,估计像素还没实现“配给制”呢。
753ty8 赞2025/7/5
In the US that was a typical flag salute before WW2. Maybe Britain too. It didn't have anything to do with Germany or Nazis. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute Symbols change.
在美国,二战前这就是典型的敬礼姿势。英国可能也一样。这跟德国或者纳粹半毛钱关系都没有。请看 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
← 返回首页